For stock negative ground all hot terminals go to the positive battery post. The negative is the ground. On a light bulb the center contact(s) are the hot and the base is the ground. The electrolock is the armored cable going from the ignition switch to the top of the coil. See image below.
Last edited by Tiny; 11/16/2005:11 PM.
VCCA Member 43216 Save a life, adopt a senior shelter pet. 1938 HB Business Coupe 1953 210 Sedan
Lots of good advice from members who know a lot more about electrical systems than I. Here's a link to a little booklet that might help--or at least explain a lot of similar problems, including what might be yours (or at least part of it):
The booklet is called "Help! My Car Won't Start When It's Hot" by Randy Rundle. Rundle is one of the most knowledgeable guys on electrical issues on antique vehicles; I have read several of his booklets, and they are all very helpful and informative; in addition, I have in the past corresponded with him and spoken with him over the phone, and he is very helpful on such issues.
You will need to get the schematic diagram for you car. The one I saw in the owners manual looks good. You will then need to check and compare every single wire (at least on the engine side initially to get it running consistently). There is no quick fix. Each wire will need to be checked from connection to connection and compared to the schematic diagram.
You can buy some wire at your local parts store and temporarily replace anything crumbling like Rusty commented on so you can get it running. It is a very simple electrical system but you'll need to spend a few patient hours on it. Ruscar posted a link with instructions from JunkYard Dog. Follow these instructions as well as what I am suggesting and you should be able to sort it out on a sunny morning...
1938 Canadian Pontiac Business Coupe (aka a 1938 Chevy Coupe with Pontiac shaped front sheet metal - almost all Chevy!) 1975 4-speed L82 Vette
Just ordered a entire light harness and have 16 gauge black and red wire. Not sure what the gauge is as the diagram doesn’t identify it. Don’t want to go too small, that’s for sure. I literally built engine aircraft harness for almost 18 years. Ringing out is. I problem but this positive ground thing throws me for a loop.
I'd ignore/disconnect the lights while you focus on the engine side of things. Sample some of the wires and then just buy at least that gauge. I think it will go quickly once you focus on it start to finish.
Yes, positive ground messes with my head too!
1938 Canadian Pontiac Business Coupe (aka a 1938 Chevy Coupe with Pontiac shaped front sheet metal - almost all Chevy!) 1975 4-speed L82 Vette
Sounds good. Thank you and everyone offering advice, it is greatly appreciated. Michael. This 38 is a beauty but needs restoration, but presentable while i restore her nut an bolt at a time.
Tim is offering similar guidance to my suggestion. Simply hook up the starter and direct wire the ignition coil as you would for a negative ground system.
Get the engine running first. Then starting tackling the other electrical concerns.
That cap and amoured cable would be the "Electrolock" mentioned previously. It was done like this to provide a level of anti theft as it was hard to hotwire. And as you suspect, harder to repair. The wire inside can be replaced and you can find instructions if you search. There are a couple members that restore these as well.
I would bypass this wire while troubleshooting your no start condition in case this is flaky. They do commonly fail due to age.
1938 Canadian Pontiac Business Coupe (aka a 1938 Chevy Coupe with Pontiac shaped front sheet metal - almost all Chevy!) 1975 4-speed L82 Vette
Thats a good post, thank you. I did come across it but did not delve into it until now. I did remove the cover of the regulator and the regulator looked like new inside but raggedy on the outside. Patience is good unless your pinched for time. I bought this car from a fellow who bought her at least eight months prior from nebraska and never registered her in california leading me to believe he bought her to flip her and make some quick cash. Now the clock is running for me to get a vin verification which requires I drive her to the police department but I can only do this on friday afternoon if i get off work early. I need this car running so I can get her registered during this never-ending virus import plus the governor of California(who i didnt vote for) wants to lock the state down again. Time is not on my side
As soon as you try to do something quickly, Murphy will slow you down...
The regulator is important since a totally different regulator is needed for positive ground than for negative ground. The wrong regulator will not work at all. The regulator also must be a match to the generator model number being used on the car.
It you want it to DRIVE it (from around the corner to the police dept), you could just run it on a large battery without any charging. You just need a big battery connected to the distributor, coil and the lights. Look at the schematic in the owners manual and you could do this part easily and worry about charging/regulation later.
1938 Canadian Pontiac Business Coupe (aka a 1938 Chevy Coupe with Pontiac shaped front sheet metal - almost all Chevy!) 1975 4-speed L82 Vette
My son recently bought a 1957 Pontiac Safari wagon from out of state and had to go to the CA CHP to get the VIN verified. In our area (East SF Bay), there is only one CHP officer that does such inspections.
Back in 2011, I had to have a VIN assigned to my 1928 Canopy Express, because the Car ID tag was missing. It didn't run so I used a tow bar to pull it from my house in San Leandro to the CHP office in Castro Valley for the inspection. I just looked on craigslist and there are a few of tow bars under $100. After you use it, you could resell it. ;-)
I suggest you give the CHP a call and ask about the process. Maybe due to the shelter in place orders, they will come to you and verify the VIN or assign one, or can suggest another way for you to get the paperwork you need. Maybe your local police can swing by and do the verification at your home.
Just trying to think of alternatives.
Cheers, Dean
Dean 'Rustoholic' Meltz old and ugly is beautiful!
Thank you, I am in East Contra Costa. I did call chp, they said they cannot do vin verification until registration is paid, but you can't pay registration without the vin verification. Brentwood PD does vin verification around $120.00. I am going to ask them if they can swing by because the car is not running and i'm running out of time.
Looking at this regulator shows one of the terminals grounded. This must be the difference between the negative ground and positive ground. Which terminal is grounded on the negative ground regulator? I don’t have a regulator in front of me. In a pinch, someone can move the ground but the correct regulator is preferred of course
Not sure which terminal is grounded on the proper regulator. I would source a NOS one as you don't want to introduce new problems to your existing problems.
You should check your generator number on the tag and then the parts manual to make sure you get the correct regulator and that you even have the correct generator. There is some overlap with different generator/regulator combinations but generally you want to make sure they match, especially when someone has obviously been messing around.
1938 Canadian Pontiac Business Coupe (aka a 1938 Chevy Coupe with Pontiac shaped front sheet metal - almost all Chevy!) 1975 4-speed L82 Vette
