Hey Paper! Welcome to the VCCA. I hope you're planning on signing up for the club as well, and sharing your story with us. I believe there were 50 roadsters built in Canada for 1935. There were an additional 1176 built in the USA as well. Quite a rare car. Did you find it in Ontario or Saskatchewan?
Those accustomed to the finest...find it in Chevrolet. 1953 Belair Convertible 1951 2dr Deluxe Sedan 2015 GMC SLE 4X4
My father is apparently the 2nd owner...maybe the 3rd. My mother wasn't too sure, as the man he got it from won it in a contest. The car was from BC originally as was the contest.
If it's the car I'm thinking of it may be #50 of the 50 built. I had a phone call from someone interested in it a few years back and was looking for info on '35s. We had a thread on here about it. It turned out it wasn't for sale. I'm assuming you're the family that wanted to keep it? Great call, if it's the car I'm thinking of!
Is this it?
Last edited by brewster; 02/03/1611:16 PM.
Those accustomed to the finest...find it in Chevrolet. 1953 Belair Convertible 1951 2dr Deluxe Sedan 2015 GMC SLE 4X4
PAPER, I have a picture of the firewall plate from your fathers car, yes its the last left hand drive roadster STANDARD SERIES EC , off the line for domestic sales , yours is #50 as the tag says on the firewall.
I have that same picture from Raisin River sask, from a person locally to you who was looking at purchasing it, along with a friend of mine from Stoney Creek Ontario.
GM Canada Chevrolet made 50 LHD for domestic sales orders and 4 RHD for export, they also made 9 LHD for export and a further 24 RHD for export.
the Chevrolet model designation for this car is 12-46 it is NOT a fisher built body, the body was supplied to Chevrolet by Hercules-Campbell an outside supplier. The car came with a rumble seat only, no trunk.
Only difference between a 1934 roadster and a 35 roadster is the motor and the frame, with the 35 frame being equipped with an X member and much stronger. Other item is the radiator ornament is different.
The car has issues with the front and rear fenders needing quality metalwork repairs, Best to go to a proper restoration shop to have those repairs done correctly. Regular body shops are not equipped to do the repairs properly.
I am also re-doing a 35 Chevrolet roadster that came from argentina as a right hand drive.
Differences between a roadster and a convertible/cabriolet.
A roadster has side curtains with plastic or glass sewn into the cloth and they are installed using rods that go into rod pockets on top of the doors. A roadster windshield swings open.
A cabriolet/convertible has a fixed windshield and does not open and the doors have windows that roll up and down like a regular car. This body was made by GM FISHER. The cabriolet was not made in 1935 in a *standard series *
The serial number indicates #50, so the last off the line.
My father always said it was rare.
The restoration is sentimental and the company I am using is highly recommended. They will strip to the bolts and reassemble.
Paper.....not to confuse you.....it is body serial # 50 of the total of 99 cars produced at Oshawa Ontario. The other 49 were left and right hand drive and built for "export" to areas around the world . total of 99 roadsters built.
Your car serial #50 was the fiftieth body made of the total of 99 produced that year. Seeing as how only 50 were sold in Canada that would make your car the last car built for Canada sales
Your wallet is about to take a beating and the cost of actually restoring the car will far exceed the selling price you could obtain. Sales on ebay over the last 4 years of roadsters is in around the $30--$45,000 range . The joy is in ownership and driving the vehicle.
Mike, your numbers indicate that all of the cars built for domestic sales were built first, then the exports were built after. Is this known to be true, or could the exports have been built within the total production... i.e.) it's just coincidence that he's got body # 50 of the total 99 cars produced. Is there any chance that car # 79 was a left hand domestic sale? Also, the numbers you list above only add up to 87 cars...
Originally Posted by mike_lynch
GM Canada Chevrolet made 50 LHD for domestic sales orders and 4 RHD for export, they also made 9 LHD for export and a further 24 RHD for export.
Last edited by brewster; 02/04/1612:19 PM.
Those accustomed to the finest...find it in Chevrolet. 1953 Belair Convertible 1951 2dr Deluxe Sedan 2015 GMC SLE 4X4
here is exactly how production of the 1935 Chevrolet standard series ec roadster appear on the production sheet I have.
model.....................................LHD.....export RHD 12-46 4 pass reg road with R.seat--(domestic ) 50.......4 12-46XL 4 pass reg road with R.seat ---Export 9.......24 12-56XL 4 pass reg road with R.seat ---export 0.......12
adding up the numbers its : domestic 50 , export 49 ( 40 RHD and 9 LHD ) total 99
the order of how the cars were built is unknown and it has to be assumed the exact serial numbers would be amongst the total of the standard series produced in 1935 :
total production Chevrolet Oshawa...5460 standard series
is it co-incidence that the ladies roadster body #50 is the last roadster built, see if I can find the picture of that firewall build plate I have
I was in GM of Canada Vintage Vehicle Services offices in Oshawa and they had stored and on display the actual firewall stamping machine that was used to make them. Franks office moved to another building and no idea of what happened to the machine.
What's the difference between a 12-46XL and a 12-56XL ?
Brewster..........a 12-46 is a 4 passenger roadster , 12-56 is a 5 passenger standard series phaeton add the XL to it and its an export car 12-46XL or 12-56XL which could be LHD or RHD
we produced 3 LHD for domestic sales, 42 LHD for EXPORT AND 139 RHD for EXPORT
the 12-56 is a Chevrolet internal model number , not to be confused with a FISHER JOB number, which the open cars roadster and phaeton were not made by fisher
I am from the family, another sibling decided not to purchase the car, I was next in line and decided to purchase.
The quote I received is substantial, but I am looking forward to doing this because it was my father's car and has been in the family for so many years.
The original owner won the car from a contest in BC, then took it to the Pasquia Hills. He was a farmer, I met him and he was pretty much a hillbilly. My dad had a Gulf Oil bulk plant and he traded him a tank of fuel for the car. Mom can't remember, but she said dad either traded a tank of fuel for the car or a truck. Or if the tank of fuel was for the 45 Colt Pistol trade with the same man or a truck. On of the two was used for the trade.
Dad wouldn't changed anything, and I can't imagine Don doing something like that either.
Dad wouldn't changed anything, and I can't imagine Don doing something like that either.
So are you going to do a factory correct restoration, or a restoration of the car as your Dad owned it. It's got a couple of incorrect "extras", like the hood emblems from a late '30's truck and the trunk ornament from a late '40's sedan. You keeping them, or filling the holes and taking it back to factory?
Those accustomed to the finest...find it in Chevrolet. 1953 Belair Convertible 1951 2dr Deluxe Sedan 2015 GMC SLE 4X4
Make sure you take lots of pictures of before you take it apart. It's also important that your family remembers the way Dad, Grandpa (etc) kept it. The extra emblems & antlers would make some nice garage hangings as well!
Those accustomed to the finest...find it in Chevrolet. 1953 Belair Convertible 1951 2dr Deluxe Sedan 2015 GMC SLE 4X4
Will do for sure, saw the antlers laying at the side of the shop by the car.
Wish the car was already underway with restoration, but likely going to be this summer /fall before I have time to bring it out to BC and begin restoration.
Paper , Has this car been previously restored or repainted ?, as if the paint is original and un-repainted in good condition , it might be more valuable to save it in the unrestored condition as a "survivor" and just return it to correct with out non standard add ons.
I have been extreamly careful to save my vehicles correct in every detail. I have found ways to preserve things like wiring and wood.. Photo's are extreamly important. before, during and afterwards. I also use them to find problems I did not "see". Sometimes I am distracted by other things. Or I loose track of some detail. Be careful removing anything just to remove it. It is all in what you want to do with the vehicle? Do you want a "daily driver" or a "show car". I love driving mine down these dirt back country roads here in Mississippi. I have mud under my fenders. (Something that a show car person would go crazy over.) I enjoy my vehicles. It is all in what you want to do. Remember it is a hobby and after all you don't need to get in it and drive to work in the morning. Restoring these takes time. Best of luck.
Welcome to the hobby and club! You along with Bruce Pearce and myself are some of the second generation club members. And congratulations on a great looking car and project.
Please let me know how I may be of help with your project as I know a lot about roadsters & phaetons. I also have some information which I can share with you related to 35's, all US information which is different from the Canadian cars. I can also get you in touch with the 33/34/35 open car TA who is currently working on 3 1934 master roadsters and has restored a 34 standard phaeton.
From my understanding, the bodies (roadster/phaeton) which were used in 35 were the same body as a 34, so the parts are interchangeable. The only differences are like the gauges which were 35, or the engine being a 35, and the frame being a 35. When Mike first got his car, I notice some of the differences for him and that is when he realized he really had a 35 roadster and not a 34.
I will send you a PM with my contact information and call me any time, I'm just south of you in Vancouver, USA.
Bruce
32 Confederate Bruce S. DeFord VCCA Judging Committee Chair
Bruce, its good we can help Karen out in Vancouver BC with restoring her fathers car. I have swapped about 30 + emails with her so far , directing her to I & I repo and also the filling station and lynn steele rubber as sources of parts she will need down the road.
Car is still at parents home in Saskatchewan province in the prairies of Canada in a fairly high up from the USA border area. they have a trailer and will bring it back this summer.
BRUCE Thanks for all your past help with my roadster. Day I unloaded the car from transporter and looked underneath , I knew wasn't a 34 as title said but a 35 based on the frame with X member .
The scumbag in KY pulled a firewall fisher tag off a 34 master and got the title based on that. I did not know any better but I sure do now !!!
April 1-3 is the swap meet in Portland, we have been talking about going to that if we can.
Thanks to Mike and Earl, have been picking up some items that the car is going to need. Have an awful lot to learn and want to make sure it's done right.
[size:14pt][/size]In model railroading , mostly backwoods logging layouts, antler racks are almost a requirement for a well dressed and oily , rusty locomotive.
We have all seen the 7 foot texas long horns on cadillacs and other larger cars. Cannot say as I have ever seen an elk or caribou rack ? on a car. I would go for an 8 foot Moosie rack myself.
In model railroading , I actually had a guy fabricate 8 foot wide moose rack that I affixed to a couple of locomotives. In the model railroad world what I did was a big hit .
Good luck with your car. I have my dad's car too and I don't regret one minute or one cent it took in restoring it. Yours being in the condition it is will turn out just about perfect. Keep us posted.
Karen as mentioned before......to the best of my knowledge nobody has the aluminum tag code for what the paint and upholstery colour was from the factory. If they did and were a member here, somebody would have talked about it .
My friend Garry in stoney creek says the correct paint mixing colour codes are in a Canadian Chevrolet service news either 1934 or 35 , a specific issue, that escapes me right now.
His Service News is so fragile he will not even touch them !!!
I also mentioned to you before re the paint, to look at the sheet metal inside the trunk, under the dash, under the door upholstery. These are all areas that would not get touched on repaints.
Original paint type......NITROCELLULOSE LACQUER , thinners and primers are available from Hibernia auto restorations in NY, they can ship to your body shop. You would have to talk to somebody in paint dept to see if they have Canadian built paint codes or colour chips. ????
I understand from what you shared, that Hercules-Campbell manufactured the open body cars (Roadsters and Phaetons) and that Fisher made the bodies for the closed cars.
I have read in some earlier threads that possibly Chevrolet made the bodies for the Roadster as well. Also in an earlier thread I read that A was the code for Fisher made and B was for
If there isn't such a plate, how does one know for sure who made the body?
Just want to comment on your post. To date, no one has any documentation as to who really made the Roadster or Phaeton bodies. The only thing that we can say fore sure is that Fisher did not make the bodies. What we do know is the Roadster and Phaeton bodies were built by Chevrolet.
Now with that being said, truck bodies were made by the Independence body company at the same time. We know that because that is noted in the parts books of the time. For example I have a 32 parts book for only 32 cars and trucks, it lists the trucks as Independence bodies.
So there is no evidence that Hercules-Campbell which were two companies at that time if I remember correctly, made Roadster or Phaeton bodies.
As to your comment about A code or B code, I can't find a picture of your cowl tag to address that. Since we didn't have cowl tags in the US, it would indicate that the cowl tags were put on by the Chevrolet plant in Canada or by who made the bodies for Chevrolet. And we know that Canadian bodies came out of a different plant than the US bodies. You can tell this from the workmanship, Ralph McEowen has stated this a few times to me.
So to answer your question, you can't tell where the bodies came from other than the difference between a Canadian open car and a US built open car.
Hope this helps. Bruce
32 Confederate Bruce S. DeFord VCCA Judging Committee Chair
In a conversation with member 35pete this afternoon where the bodys were made , was part of that conversation.
35Pete suggested that the GM plant in st Louis that produced body parts , was the plant that produced the roadster and touring bodys for the USA and Canada.
Seeing as how we CANADA only produced : 1934 phaeton.....1........domestic sales 1934 roadster.... 76 .....plus LH & RH exports above is for series 200 **early 1934** = oct to December 34
1934 phaeton.....NO domestic sales Only L & RH drive exports 1934 roadster....NO domestic sales Only L & RH drive exports above is for late 1934 January onward
1935 phaeton..3 for domestic sales ,42 LHD export 149 rhd export 1935 roadster...50 for domestic sales , 49 LHD & RHD export. Above is for 1935 production
Seeing as how these Canadian production numbers are very small in number compared to USA production numbers, 35Pete and I have come to the conclusion that the wood kits and metal body panels were made at St Louis possibly and shipped to Canada to the Woodstock Ontario facility where then would be assembled and shipped to the Oshawa Ontario plant for painting trimming and mounting onto a chassis.
We , nor does anybody else , have absolute proof of what parts were made where. It makes no sense to produce a set of tooling dies to produce metal body panels in Canada for this low production.
I personally also believe that Campbell-Hercules might have produced these bodies to Chevrolet.
Its all speculation on our part trying to get at the truth to share with fellow vcca members.
The A and B codes are what I supplied to Karen from the 1934 and 1935 Chevrolet Oshawa Ontario production plant
A code stands for " bodies milled, built, painted and trimmed at Oshawa. Cowl and dash assemblies, side quarters, back roof panels , purchased."
B code stands for : Millstock purchased in sets, body built, painted and trimmed locally, cowl and dash assembly, side quarters, back roof covers purchased. "
B code applies to roadsters , phaetons and sedan deliverys
Info directly from Oshawa Ontario production sheets.
FYI...Looking at my DUCO paint book, it shows Color Comb 512 as a 32 Oldsmobile color Oyster Bay Blue. The color Combinations across the GM lines do not appear to have any duplicates. It will be interesting to see if the car retains any reference to the original color.
earl....I have mentioned to Karen owner of the 35 Canadian built roadster , that the original factory colour will be in overspray under the rear part of the quarter panels up at the top as doubtful anybody would be painting there. Whats the colour of the paint under the rumble seat wood backing ?
When I removed the wood on either side of the rumble seat I found this weird green shade. I also found it in a couple of other places, absolutely too UGLY to use.
My own 35 roadster car will be black nitrocellulose lacquer.
If anybody has CHEVROLET SERVICE NEWS Canada 1934 1935 the formula is printed in there. My friend garry has it , but the paper is so fragile he will not open it. Hopefully somebody selling paint cards here at a swap meet will have one for sale.
I understand the car will be shipped to new England area and restored there for Karen. I suspect anybody stripping the paint off down to steel will find the original colour still there.
I think trim is the interior. I have the paint info in a 1960 CIL advisory book which lists all of the codes and combos from '34 up so that you could use "modern" paint to make an exact match. Unfortunately all of the 1960 paint codes are now way out of date too...
Those accustomed to the finest...find it in Chevrolet. 1953 Belair Convertible 1951 2dr Deluxe Sedan 2015 GMC SLE 4X4
I'm no expert on the 1930's stuff, but my Oshawa built '51 sedan has many smaller differences in the engine. Many parts up here were sourced from Canadian suppliers like McKinnon in St.Catharines (The current GM engine plant) and Donaldson in Chatham. Things as simple as the bolts and screws look different because they are sourced from Canada. All of the major components and castings are compatible with US built engines. Most of the dealer installed and bolt on accessories are a bit different, or have Canadian source tags on them. (Dealer installed oil filter, heater, starter, generator, air cleaner...)
Last edited by brewster; 03/14/1611:08 PM.
Those accustomed to the finest...find it in Chevrolet. 1953 Belair Convertible 1951 2dr Deluxe Sedan 2015 GMC SLE 4X4
These Chevrolet cars in the standard series were low end and the wheels were painted. Packards, cadillacs, LaSalles, pierce arrows, lincolns, marmons, all the upscale high dollar cars had chrome wheels .
If you want to get those stock 17" wire wheels chrome plated, that's going to put a big hurt to the wallet in your handbag and maybe a tear to your eye. Plus its all wrong.
If earl sends you pictures of his, that's what your car is supposed to look like
Brewster is correct about small things will be different, all the US engines came from Flint. The main different you will see between a US and CN engine is the casting numbers on the side which identify what year the block is and small casting variations which a normal person would never see less your a casting expert. US parts should interchange with the Canadian made engines with no issues since they were made from the same design and specifications.
Hope this helps!
32 Confederate Bruce S. DeFord VCCA Judging Committee Chair
No that photo was taken in 2016. Bruce DeFord and Earl Petersen recommended Dave Sylvain to do the restoration. We picked up “Henry” from my mom in Saskatchewan and trailered him out East to Dave’s shop in spring 2016.
I am going to post some progress photos in the members section.
It is a huge thanks to this VCCA chat page that Henry is getting the best of best from all the years of passion and knowledge in the early Chevys from Dave, Bruce and Earl.
The exacting craftsmanship of Dave and same exactness in the wood working skills of Judd Isch is just incredible. The engine progress can be viewed online at J&M Machine who also are top in their field.
Thank you Mike for introducing me to Earl when I first posted here.
It’s been a lot of fun working with these guys. Found online a 1935 CN Chevy Standard parts book so it has been great when looking for parts we can make sure we the correct ones.
You might want to consult with Earl about getting a copy of the OPEN CAR PARTS catalogue he has covering 1929--1935.
Its interesting reading and worth owning.
Did we produce one, doubt it. I took the copy Earl made for me and took it to a specialist to have increased in print size so I could easily read it. Even increased its at 85-90% clarity.
Thank you Mike for putting me in touch in Earl. He has been a wealth of information as he has a US 1935 that he restored.
Check out the online progress on members forums project and you can read up on Dave Sylvain's articles in the G&D some mention is made to "Henry", as he is restoring. He details out his restoration process which is amazing! Thank you Dave!
Bruce De Ford put me in touch with Dave and has been judging us step by step as we go as to what is correct and what is not! Thank you Bruce!
Named after my father who passed away in 2017 and who always wanted to restore this car.