VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 Alcohol Detection Device on '32 ?

Hey Guys,
For the life of me I can't figure out why every time I take a 5 mile trip to the local package store to pick up a six pack she won't re-start in the parking lot. Just happened to me again.
The temp needle goes to hot upon shutdown. Okay. That's normal. But I need to wait about 20 minutes 'til the temp needle travels back to normal, then she starts.
All elements in the starting circuit have been checked out, battery is excellent.

I noticed though it labors to crank when this hot. Vapor lock, maybe in the cylinders, causing too much compression ? I retard the spark, no difference.

I'm thinking now since it's a Prohibition era car, maybe the government designed it to detect alcohol aboard (my six pack) and leave the driver stranded.
Mysteriously it seems to re-start okay after pulling into my garage. I'd really like to fix this glitch. Tired of drinking in the parking lot, like a homeless person….waiting around.

Ideas appreciated !

Either you have a tight engine or a weak starter.
Was the engine apart recently?
The starter motors are as best marginals as far as turning over an engine that requires more than the factory specified.
I assume that you have nice fat battery cables.

The engine has not been apart in 30 years. I have a new Optima 6v battery w/800 CCA. Spins like a 12v most times.
Running 00 battery cables, neg. cable bolted to starter hold down bolt, starter was rebuilt last spring. Only thing I haven't done is install high torque field coils as suggested by JYD, if I can find a shop to do it.

Wondering if pumping the gas pedal several times first would help. I don't want to flood her though.

Have you tried a different coil? It could also be flooding out from a high float level and the heat rise.

I changed out the coil with a new one from the FS this past summer.
The carb was rebuilt last winter.
What do you mean by "the heat rise" ?

As you posted when shut down the temp gauge goes to hot. When shut off the heat causes the carb to sometimes push a little fuel out. Try starting when hot no choke and don't pump the pedal. If it does not fire right away (3-4 seconds) then try putting the pedal to the floor and hold it there while cranking in case its flooded.

Have you attempted to go to church, or the post office instead??

Bigger positive battery cable often fixes hot non-starters...

Never though of that. The post office is actually across the street. I have 00 on the positive side too.

I just reread your first post and if it labors to turn when hot and you have the larger cables possibly your starter needs rebuilding. When mine was rebuilt the rebuilder had it rewound as he said that after all those years (68 at the time) the copper can go bad and short out when hot.

It's worth a try. Thanks Steve !

It sounds like the "laborious cranking" or "starter drag" when hot may be starter related.

If it were "vapor lock", you could install an in line electric fuel pump, activated by a toggle switch.

Use the electric when you need it, let the mechanical take over for all other times.

What is the problem? Slow in turning over OR turning over OK but not starting? These are two different things.
A starter that draws too much "juice" and turns slower can rob the ignition system of proper voltage.

To better clarify, when I shut her down after fully warmed up after a few miles, she often will not start right up again. It cranks over okay but not rapid like when cold.
With the needle now in HOT position, she cranks much slower, almost too slow to fire and sounds like a weak battery. That's when I decide to just wait until it cools off.
This is in complete contrast to her fast cranking and easy starting when cold.

She runs fine in the NORMAL position when driving, no problem.

Since you're not paying much for this advice, here's my two cents worth.

I think the easiest thing to do FIRST would be to put a different starter on your car. Even an old, used one is okay. Two bolts and the electrical connection. Done.

This will show immediately whether the characteristics change. -- And I agree that this could be the issue based upon your description. Starters don't like heat. And with an Optima battery, there should be NO ISSUE at all with the voltage available for cranking. These batteries are fantastic at "pushing" through clearance issues or excessive friction problems. Depending upon the rebuild, the starter COULD have fixed one problem (whatever it was that caused the rebuild to take place) BUT it could now have a different problem. A misalignment, or poor fit of shaft and bushings, or brush that isn't pushing hard enough against the commutator. Naturally, any leakage between the various copper segments on the commutator (in a "floating" form such as metallic dust) would also cause erratic behavior.

That's why I'd try a swap-out first.

--Bill

Also, make sure that the all of the ground surfaces are bare metal....i.e. the flange on the starter nose cone and the bell housing should be bare metal where the starter bolts up to the bell housing. Also, your battery ground strap should attach to bare metal as well.

Good day everyone
I solved my slow crank (hard hot starting problem) by retarding the spark. Pulling out the knob did not provide enough retard. I had to adjust the distributor uptill the timing marks lined up on the flywheel. Problem solved with no parts to buy.
Bye for now
Mike

Appreciate the help ! Now if I can get my grubby hands on a decent starter, a quick substitution would be a great diagnostic move. My connections were clean and shiny, at least a few months ago.

Maybe unrelated but my flywheel pointer mark is stamped to the left of the 12 marks if looking sidewise with your head cocked to the right, NOT as in Bill Barker's diagram showing it in between the 1 and 2. Therefore my timing may be more advanced than 12 since I set it on the number "1". 18 did not work for my engine at all, too much knocking, etc., I may, as Fullbore suggested, retard it a bit. Can't hurt.
If all else fails, I'm going back to the package store, buy some club soda, see if there really is an alcohol sniffer.

You mentioned that the flywheel markings might be off.

I suggest finding TDC of cylinder 1 the old-fashioned way (putting a screwdriver in the spark plug hole and using the manual crank to get the piston to the top) and then check to see if the U|C mark is in the correct position.

Using this procedure, I found that the previous owner oriented the flywheel on my '28 incorrectly. My solution was to paint new marks on the flywheel rather than tearing it down to re-orient the flywheel.

Cheers, Dean

I'll check that.

Just curious. How close were you to tearing it down before the paint idea arose ?????

I might be wrong but I think the flywheel has a index pin hole and the crank is pinned. At least the engine in my 29 is that way.

The '28 flywheel is not pinned, so it could be attached in one of six positions.

I thought of the paint idea as I was contemplating what would be involved in tearing it down.

Dean

Dean is correct, so you must let the thought process guide you in assembling the flywheel and crank. For complete un-abridged information on the construction of a 1928 engine go to "School is in Session". Lot's of tricks explained there.

I thought that we were talking about a '32