VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 1930 6 cylinder rebuild.

I have a 1930 6 cylinder engine that has not been run after the rebuild.
The fella that built the engine has experience in rebuilding airplane engines. He pays attention to detail.
He sent the rods to The Filling Station.
Bought .30 over aluminum Pistons.
Sent the block and head to ADB Machine Shop on Anchorage.
Bored the block for those pistons
Crank was polished and balanced The rods were balanced, and everything was dynamically balanced as a unit.
Cam and bearings were great, as were the Main bearings which still have 2 shims each.
Head was magnafluxed and had no cracks.
It was rebuilt using new valves and springs.
A new gear oil pump was installed.
A new water pump was installed.
New timing set.
The guy spared no expense.

My concern is this-------
He was told that it is normal for these type of piston rings to cause enough drag when new that you can't turn the engine over with the hand crank.

I have never built a modern engine that was that tight.
Anyone have any wisdom?

I think I may pull the plugs out and tow the car in 3rd gear down the road to see if it will loosen up.
After all, the 29 repair manual says to Burn In the new engine for 45 minutes using the Burn in machine.
Dale

Dale,
I love your description... it's almost identical to what I did on my last '31 engine... as far as I can tell, you should be very, very happy with the final product.

Here's some thoughts on your first start.... and I'm sure that others will chime in here.

1) Absolutely -- use a drill to turn the oil pump over for 5-10 minutes to get oil EVERYWHERE inside the engine. I have a piece of 1/4" (?) brass stock that I cut a slot in the end. Then I stick the OTHER end into my drill. Pull the distributor, and insert shaft down into oil pump. Drill away... with the valve cover off , you'll soon see oil filling the rocker shafts... make sure oil is coming out the ends (eg. cylinder 1 and 6).

2) Yes, towing your engine with the plugs out is a really easy way to get past the first couple hundred revolutions. -- But I'd be really surprised if you can't turn it over by hand after you get everything oiled inside. And I'm sure that a lot of guys will say towing your car is unnecessary if you just use the starter to turn it over... crank for 1 minute, cool for 3 minutes, then crank again. do this a few times until you're ready for SHOWTIME. Then insert plugs and connect wires.

Good luck.

--Bill

Thanks Bill.
I already made a rod to spin the oil pump.
The starter motor was rebuilt also, as was the generator. (With sealed bearings so there is no need to lube them.)

Guess I could try to turn the motor with the starter. It really is stiff.

And yes, assembly lube was used during the build.

I am concerned about what your mechanic says about the rings. A properly fit ring will be test fit in the bore and the gap measured. Following standard procedures, the rings will be sized to fit the bore with the proper gap. Assuming he did not make any more errors in fitting, the engine should turn over with the starter and the plugs out, after pre-oiling with a drill.


PS: For a better description of engine rebuilding, thumb through the "School is in Session" located in other threads.

Thanks for the response Ray.
I did ask the mechanic his procedure when he built the engine.
He used Plastigauge a torque wrench...etc.
He did check the ring gap by inserting each ring into the cylinders and measured the gap before assembly.
I wonder if he checked the depth of the ring groove in the piston vs. the depth of the ring. I know that I never have,,,,,
I would assume that if the rings couldn't compress all the way, the pistons would probably not fit into the cylinders.
I just saw a warning on ring installation about that.

The starter does turn the motor over, without plugs.
Starter has a hard time getting the crank moving but once moving, it will keep it going with a lot of effort. Starter gets warm quickly.
Don,t think it will turn over when the plugs go back in it.
I may try to start it although, the carb was rebuilt by the same guy so the adjustments will not be correct. That in addition to the timing not being exact and the slow turning of the motor, doesn't look promising.

I had to add 12 volts to my new engine. After it fired I removed the 12 volts. After running it for about 20 minutes, it would start with the 6 volt battery. I also used 5w20 oil in the new engine...Joe

Thanks Joe. I may go that route.

Sounds like your on your way. Now that it is fully oiled up it is ready to install the distributer and fire it up. On your starter, make sure that all of the mounting surfaces are not painted. Make sure all of the grounds are not painted. Once you have made sure all of your electrical connections are clean and tight, you should have full power available for cranking the engine. Do not use the starter for over 15 seconds at a time without a rest otherwise you may overheat the starter.
It took about 1000 miles on my new rebuild to get it running smooth and loosened up.

Good info. Thanks

Just a quick follow up----
Valves were not seating even with loose rockers.
I am thinking that the pre lube that was used during assembly may have some how gummed up the valve stems after sitting more than a year after it was built without being started. Or the new seats corroded. Had to bounce the valves with a plastic hammer to get them to seat.
Fired her up on 6V.
Sounds great.
Now I need to get the radiator on so I can run it long enough to seat everything so a compression check can be done.
Body is still off of the frame waiting for me to finish a little sheet metal work and paint.
Chassis, Brake system, Steering system, Diff, Tranny, Bearings and seals etc...All rebuilt to new or better specs.
Now I am going to be looking for the correct routing of a new wiring harness that I don't have yet....

Hooked up radiator and put some water in her.
Ran it up to operating temp, set the lifters up to hot specs.
Rechecked the timing and points at 12 BTDC, adjusted idle air.
It has an intermittent miss.
No apparent vacuum leaks.
I mat have to try the 18 BTDC 18 Points and 40 plugs
Rear main leaking alot. Drips about 1 drip every 5-6 seconds while running. When J shut it off, it pours out about a 2" puddle.
Any ideas?
I am going to pull the pan and rear main to see what is going on.
Sounds great otherwise.

Congrats Dale!!! The first smell of a newly started engine is fantastic... It'll never smell the same way to you again. Ha!!

Don't worry about the intermittent miss yet... You've got lots of time to chase that one down. And we can certainly give you some great arm-chair advice.

I'm sorry to hear about the rear-main leak... And, unfortunately, you may be chasing that for the rest of your life... The only difference is that the number of drips per minute will vary... and it doesn't get "better"...

While your engine is still tight, remember to press on the floor starter, and give it time for one or two revolutions BEFORE you turn the key on! Actually that's a good habit to use even after it gets broken in. That way all battery current goes to the starter first.

Good luck.

Remove the check ball from the rear main bearing cap and see if that stops the leak.

My guess is that the rear main was set too loose. My experience with plastigage on these older engines is it is not accurate. I have only found the method in the Repair Manual works the best. Take out shims until the crank will not move then add back a shim to the camshaft side. It the crank turns then rotate through 360 deg. to check for tight or loose spots. A gap over 0.002 will leak some oil. Wear on the slinger is another since it does not through the oil into the groove so it can return to the crankcase back past the ball in the passage. As the dog pointed out taking out the ball can make a difference if the passage is partially plugged or restricted.

That "Arm chair Advice" is very welcome and some of it quite entertaining.

When I drop the pan, I will remove the check ball as suggested.
I am going to assume that the check ball is there to keep oil in the rear bearing? Any detrimental effects like starving the rear main or reduced oil pressure caused by removing the ball?

Looks like the tried and true old fangled methods win again....LOL

Thanks to all for the replies and suggestions.
Dale

Actually the ball is there to keep from oil running from the pan through the passage and out the rear main when parked nose up. It is large enough to seal the passage but small enough to not restrict oil flow in the larger part of the passage. It is held in place by a wire pin.

Thanks for that----
Interesting.
Any idea how much of an incline it would take for the oil to run out the passage?
We have some pretty steep hills here on the highways.

Real steep hills would probably do it.

I have never calculated the amount of inclination to get the level of oil in the pan (assuming 5 quart initial fill) to the be higher than the lower part of the rear main bearing. You would have a leak for sure in that case. My guess is a moderately steep hill could do it. It would be an interesting experiment that could be done with an unmounted oil pan.

When I get in there, I'll see if I can figure it out.
Dale