VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 1941 start up part 2

I don't like long posts so am starting a new one to update everyone on my progress.

I put Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas tank per Gene's suggestion, and installed my front sheet metal. After having the metal off about a dozen times I have finally got it down to patience and not forcing things. Even got all the grill surround chrome to fit nicely. The front hood is still off a little but I get closer to a good fit each time I play with it. This is a whole new discussion topic. How to get your front sheet metal aligned properly.

Took the car on about a 30 minute ride. Didn't get over 40 driving mostly around 30-35 MPH. Front suspension and new old tires worked well, no pulling or over reaction to road bumps.

Transmission is a little hard to get out of 1st gear and wants to grind going into second. I can not tolerate having any grinding so double clutch and feel it into second. I know I am pissing a lot of people off behind me with my slow acceleration but!!! Sometimes it even goes smoothly into second. I still think I need to work with the linkage more? I also find letting the clutch out causes a lot of chatter, and if the engine is cold I have to have a high RPM to keep from stalling. This goes away after the first two or three times of shifting.

The engine seems real strong (peppy) it wants to go about 35 or being accelerated to run its smoothest. It runs a little rough in second gear, and at low speeds. Don't know if this is a slight miss or what?

I have had a lot of evidence of oil leakage. The valve cover gasket was leaking from running the engine without the cover being tight. I ended up switching back my 48 cover/gasket until I have time to install the 41 cover/gasket correctly. The 48 cover allows you to add oil through the cover rather than through the vent tube. I do want to go back to the original look. The oil was running straight down the back of the block by the firewall.

There is also a trail of oil coming from the transmission shift cover, and the oil pan plug is leaking. But the big question is does the rear seal leak, and it does!!! At this point the leak is a few drops not a pool of oil as it was before. I think I can live with it, but time will tell!! I will put the cover on the flywheel today to isolate the rear seal and oil pan gasket more. I need to check more carefully the pan gasket in the front and back.

Today I will check the fluid in the rear end to see if I am getting a lot of transmission fluid there, check the engine oil for usage, put the front bumper back, side rocker panel moldings back, and old carpeting back in the front. The carpeting is probably from the 70's, not original, but I like its looks!!!

Hoping for a lot of unsupervised time today, best wishes, Mike

My 48 valve cover doesn't have the oil filler on it. Not sure it is original, since the engine has been changed in it twice that I know of. Think it was a long blocks.

Keith, thanks for the correction. The engine it came off of has a GAA block which I believe is for the 1949's. If we are both confused, hopefully, someone will let us know. Thanks, Mike

The 1947 truck was the first to have the valve cover oil filler. The 1949 passenger car was the first car to have it.
A GAA is a 1949 216 3ngine for a passenger car.

Is a picture worth a thousand words?

Thank goodness I have not put the rocker panel trim back on. Yes I am being facetious!!! It looks like I will be taking my engine back to the machine shop for more work on the rear seal. Will be out of town until Sunday so will have time to lick my wounds and decide what's next to do.

The oil you see is from a half hour drive (still breaking the engine in), and the car sitting a couple of hours after the ride. I think it is real clear that the oil leak is coming from the rear seal. There is no oil running down the back of the block or under the pushrod cover. I have been also finding a puddle under the harmonic balancer in the back valley of the cross member. This must be coming from the timing cover or the balancer. So before the last ride I stuck a rag there so I was sure it wasn't leaking oil all the way back to the rear seal area. I will contact the machine shop next week for suggestions. Thanks, Mike

P.S. The good news is I am not having Charlie's problems

Did they put a "rubber" seal in it?

Good question, Gene. The neoprene seal will NOT touch he shaft.

My '41 had one. I lost a quart in 33 miles! 'Had to put the rope seal in. I think the neoprene seal is included in Kantor's engine kit. That is where the PO got the engine kit for mine.

Mike,

I'm sorry to hear about your engine leakage/seepage problems.

I think you're being a bit critical though. By looking at the garage floor and the underside of the engine and transmission, I'd say that looks about normal. After about 60K miles, that is. Don't pull the engine, just get some buckets. Recycle what you collect. Just kidding.

I too, think it is the lack of a rope seal. Nothing more.

As to the transmission, it looks like the oil may be tracing from a bolt thread. I can't remember if the bolt holes go through or not. If so. some sealer may be the answer.

Charlie

BTW: I noted that cheater shifter arm. Lord have mercy! I will help supply the parts if you will give up on that thing and install a vacuum unit. I think the transmission may be rejecting the thing. Do too! You will be pleased with the vacuum and wonder how you ever did without it. Will too!

You guys might want to re-read some of his earlier post about his rear seal. rear seal

Oops, I just re-read MY post. Not how I intended it to read. Sorry! I just want you all to be aware of his earlier postings.

Once again sorry for my other post wording.

After putting the rope seal in the '41, it leaks a quart in approx 800 miles. I'll live with that. (Far better than a quart in 33/35 miles!) It isn't smoking so the oil is getting by the rear main seal.

As you may know, this 216 is all new (about 2600 miles on it now) with insert rod bearings. It got a Kantor kit which evidently included the neoprene seal.

The only leak I have ( after 20 years ) is from the side filler/breather tube..Shoot, now I'm jinxed...

I am back in town so will call the machine shop tomorrow. My gut feeling is I need to locate an original rope seal. Any leads are appreciated. Thanks, Mike

Buying a rope seal? That's easy!

www.fillingstation.com
www.chevsofthe40s.com

All the cool parts places sell them:)Both Chevs of the 40s and Filling Station sell the graphite rope seals from Best Gaskets. They seem to be great seals.

I'm not sure I'd get the one from NAPA.

All the seals I have put in myself (2 and 1/2) and the set my machine shop used were the Best Gasket graphite rope seals. Did you replace your rear seal? If you did what did you use and would you give me some pointers?

Thanks, Mike

P.S. I taped a tuna fish can to the flywheel cover. Took the car on a 16 mile ride and took the picture after the car had sat an hour. The large puddle is from where I spilled the tuna can as I removed it. I assume I had 3/8th to 1/2 of an inch of oil in the tuna can?

Mike,
last time I checked, this guy had original NOS seals. Gasket City I don't think you will resolve it with a change in seal type. The new type of woven seal marketed by Best is about as good as it gets.

Mike,

Mercy! That's a heap of oil.

I doubt this but it has gnawed at me ever since you told us about the leak problem on the rebuild: Are the oil pan gaskets in the right order for proper overlap?

I don't know it that error could cause the quantity of oil leaking out or not, but I've noted that Gene has advised us over and over about the importance of installing them right. I think he went so far as to say that "If you don't, you're going to have a leak" or words to that effect.

Otherwise, I don't see how installation of a rear seal, rope or not, could cause such a relatively heavy flow of oil.

Have you taken the flywheel pan off, wiped every thing down real good and then run it to see exactly where is is seeping (pouring) from? Be hard to tell, I guess. It looks like from the pictures that you have but I had to ask.

Did the ends of the rope seal butt up against each other as Gene advised? Even a different quality of rope seal wouldn't account for that much oil that soon. Well, I don't think so anyway.

I have the feeling that something is really bad amiss with installation of the oil pan gasket or the rear seal. Well, I'm stating the obvious but I don't think even Miss America could have put it together that bad. Just kidding.

The engine is painted really nice and it's a shame that it is leaking. I know you'd hate to have to remove it again. No way you can do that without scraping the paint somewhere.

We feel for you and hope you find the error - there has to be one- soon.

Best,
Charlie

BTW: If it were mine, I'd snatch that sucker out and load on the back of the pickup and haul-[bleeped] over to see Gene. I'd take a new gaskets and pay him big money to watch me put the gaskets in. Take a grand with you. Should do it and it would be worth it.

BTW: This is an addendum. I noticed I got bleeped. Did you notice that the bilabial mode of transportation that Jesus used to enter Jerusalem was a "bleep?" Juusssst Kidding. I'll try to watch my language.

At this point my gut feeling is the old asbestos seals were compressed into the rear cap so oil could not get under them. They were also not permeable to oil so oil could not get through them. The only possible place for them to leak was at the corners and on the crank surface. I think the newer designed seals by Best Gasket are allowing oil under them causing a whole new dimension of problems. In the installation instructions they even suggest that when the seal is used on old Ford blocks that a sealer be used under the gasket and it be pinned in place with a roller pin which they provide in the kit. The guys at my shop did use the pin, to further stabilize the seal. Which I felt was not necessary. I am beginning to think putting a sealer under the seal might be a good idea.

Today, I am going to recontact the shop to see what they suggest. And yes they had conferred with Best Gasket's tech support before installing the seal.

Thanks for everyone's help. I will be following up the lead on locating an original asbestos rear seal. Thanks, Mike

Mike...bad leak...needs to be fixed for sure. Here in Hendersonville NC there is a auto parts store - Wards Auto Parts- you can google them and they also sell a lot of stuff on E-Bay. They have a ton of old parts for our cars. I got an old style rope seal from them and also NOS brake springs that worked while the ones from Ch.of the 40`s were too short and impossible for ME to use at least. As for the rope seal, I am still VERY happy with Gene`s recommendation of rear rope seal fix. My engine leaked excessively before the fix. Now just maybe a drip...no more. It was the replacement of the cap rope seal only and compressing the upper seal and adding pieces from the left over new seal since only the cap rope was used. I made oak dowel sticks and pounded the H out of the upper seal as far up as possible on each side, then added pieces of the new rope and pounded them compressing up. When I got to the bottom where the cap met the block I left MAYBE 1/32 inch of seal over on both cap and block and added a tiny speck of Bl.rtv. bolted it all up and made sure the oil pan and side covers were done properly , per Gene and others instructions and now Id say it stopped the leaking by 95%. May change in time ,I hear from others, but sure seemed to work for me. Good luck ....sure hope you don`t have to tear down again ......David

Just got off the phone with the machine shop. Their research has verified that Best Gasket's rear seal is not appropriate for the 216 and an original seal is the answer. The question is where can these be found? I have left a message with Gasket City.

The foreman at the machine shop is recommending I install a PVC valve to relieve some of the pressure on the rear seal. He wants to try this before trying any other repairs. He wants me to send him an oil/breather venting tube that he will mount the valve to. I don't know anything about this concept except the interesting thing is the inside of my tube is about the only thing that shows absolutely no evidence of oil exposure. I do know that Steve put one on his 38 but I assumed it was to correct oil leaking out of his oil/breather tube?

I think I will begin a new thread so future Chat users can more easily access rear seal information. Thanks, Mike

Many of us over on the Stovebolt, including myself have used the newer Best Gasket seal on a 216 with excellent results. I have also installed a PCV system to help with another leak, with no success. However the PCV system is good for the motor.

Old216, Just ordered 2 sets of rear seals from Gasket City along with 2 sets of oil pan gaskets. Hopefully, someone will explain what the PVC thing is all about. I will try an advanced search of our Chat site later. Thanks, Mike

The PCV system I'm guessing is to eliminate the vent tube to the atmosphere. PCV= positive crankcase ventilation. I don't know the technical details but am thinking the venting is connected back to the air intake and recycled thru the combustion process.

it would suck any crankcase pressure back into the intake manifold . frank

I believe you may be looking for this

http://www.speedprint.com/deves50/pcvinstall.php

p.s. i feel your pain . any leak is always ticking away in the back of my head

cheers

Ollie