VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 How dependable can a 216 be

I am not going to put it back to 100 percent original since I have done some upgrades that make it a little better on todays roads like 3.55 gears,T-5,disc brakes and a little lowering to get the center of gravity down where it will handle highway speeds better and lastly 12 volts so I can have modern tunes. I never understood the 216 with the splash oiling system and maybe its time to learn about it and quit bashing it because I dont understand it.

FWIW, at 16 to 19 (young and insane) I drove a '41 and later a '47 wide open thru the gears. Both saw 70mph daily for several miles (late to work after school). Local driving except for a few trips to Atlanta. Both cars stood up to my big foot without a problem. No one told me babbit bearings wouldn't stand the way I drove. In fact, they stood it quite well. (I did, later, have a 3.55 gear in the '47.)

I'm being told today's freeway driving at 65 to 70 (with 4.11 gearing) will kill a 216. They may be correct (?). Obviously, that is quite different from local driving in the 50's. I'll find out - I'm gonna run this 216 65! I believe it'll take it OK.

Frankly, I'd sell this 216 while it is still fresh if it would bring $2500. I'd go for a later, larger 6. But then, I haven't tried to sell it.

Back in the 70s I drove a '31 Chevy as my second car. I ran it several times over 50 miles at 55+ mph on the interstate. Always kept lubes up to snuff. Never even a hint of a problem. If I could drive an unbalanced crank '31 at 55, a counterbalanced 216 should do 65 without a problem.

If you want a 216, I know were the sweetest one I ever had is at. Unless he already found a home for it. It's in a 51 sedan, here in Grants Pass Oregon. I sold a local my 1951 two years ago. This motor is so smooth & quiet, you literally had to get out & lift the hood every time you stops at a light, just to see if it was still running. Quietest , smoothest Chevy I ever had. He had the motor on Craigslist a couple weeks ago. I don't know if it is still there? I have had lots of 216's & 235's & not much difference in the early 235's & 216's. If you don't hot rod them, or rap your pipes all the time. Keep the valves adjusted & clean oil in them, they will last you.
I had found the 51 Chevy in a barn, with 1986 tags on the plates. Real nice old ladies car. I drove it for a couple years while restoring all the rubber & rats nest interior. The new owner said it is still as quiet as ever , but he found a 325 out of some custom show car. He wants the motor just because it is all chromed & fancied up. Well ok, to each his own... See if the motor is still on Craigslist in Grants Pass OR. If it is there, you can see it run & drive it. If you can't find it, send me a note & I'll search him out for you...

Not true. I have been driving my 1951 Styleline 2-door sedan with 4.11 gears and a 216 at 65 miles an hour since 1960 and the car just cruises right along. As a matter of fact, the car loves to be driven between 60 and 65 down the freeway.

What I am after is a motor that looks original,I have heard more horror stories about those 216s but would like to prove that they can be used. What I really would like to do is find a early 235 with the tall side cover and convert it to full pressure and insert bearings and I would be done,I would have a motor that looks original but have a little more power then a 216. I will watch out for one and hope I can keep the present 235 going long enough so I wont have to be changing motors more then once.

I put out some wanted adds for a good running 216 so I will see what pops up,still going to be looking for a 41-9 235 to convert to full oil pressure too. The 56 235 I picked up is just too dirty to be the low mile motor it was supposed to be so it will need to be gone through and it will make a good parts donor for the early 235 conversion,I need to build a motor for another car I have first so a rebuilt motor for the 37 is a few years down the road so I am going to gather parts for now while I can still get them. If a good 216 shows up it will be initially a temporary motor but if I like it and I dont tear it up I could be done with motors for the 37 and can go on to other stuff.

http://talk.classicparts.com/showthread.php?t=572

You're a lucky man. 65mph w/411 gears would be pushing redline.

This shows you'd be turning about 3400 @ 65MPH with 600x16s and a 4.22 rear gear. A 3.73 would be about 3000 so the 4.11 would be in the neighborhood of 3300. I regularly drive my Master with the 3.73 at 60-65. I think if one had aluminum pistons that speed with a 4.11 would be a piece of cake. If I remember right I believe Gene has posted numerous times he drives his '39 Master Deluxe with the 4.22 gear freeway speeds regularly.

Great charts...Hadn't seen them before...I'm doing 65 MPH at 3000 RPM with a 3.73 gears and stock tires...I'm comfortable with the speed and I can still climb hills in 3rd...Works for me...!

My 235 runs more smoothly and sounds better at 55mph. At 65 it sounds like the engine is going much faster than it is. Is there a way it ID the rear end without taking the cover off and counting the teeth? I've never bothered to count the teeth when I put the axle seals in,maybe I have a deluxe gearing? smiles The deluxe would be running 57 at 3000 rpm instead of 65.

I was just informed by someone who converted a early 235 to full pressure and he was not happy with it since those motors did not have much compression and the 216 ran better,the idea of a converted early 235 sounded good in my head and glad I was told about this before buying one and then going through all the trouble and expense to find that motor would not be what I expected. Before I buy another motor I better put the recently purchased 235 on the stand and take a look at it and see what I got since it might be good after a little cleaning,I about have the fake 235 look wrapped up so it would be foolish to change when I almost have what I want. If a good running 216 shows up I might grab it and stick it in the corner of the garage in case the 56 235 is no good and the 235 in the truck bites the dust.

To ID the rear end get the ID numbers stamped into the housing. They exact location of the number is shown in the front pages of the shop manual. With those numbers I can ID the rear end for you.



you hay have a larger fan blade or the fan may be turning faster than "stock" due to the water pump conversion.

The s compr3ssion has nothing to do with the oiling system. The sort cumming of the dipper system is usually a plugged-up oil pump screes, a oil trough line plugged up, an incorrectly adjusted connecting rod bearing, broken dipper or running the engine low on oil .
The 1953 engine with dippers had a high for the time 7.1 to 1 compression ratio and performed OK. It was just that they were getting the engine to easily exceed 4000 RPM due to the camshaft and aluminum pistons and the dipper system is inadquate for over 4000 RPM.
The old 6 produced its maximun horst power at 3000 to 3500 RPM. The modernixed version was uped to over 4000 RPM in 1954.

I know compression has nothing to do with the oiling system,the person who done a full pressure conversion on a tall side cover 235 did not like the way it ran due to the lower compression of it compared to a later 235 and said the old 216 ran better so I am not going to waste the time and money working with the early 235.

The early 235 was nothing but a 216 with a longer stroke and larger bore. It was designed for lower RPM power in a heavy duty truck. In 1950 the used a redesigned head with larger intake valves, Larger manifolds and larger carburetor throat for better breathing.
The early 216 had 90 HP, the 235 had 92 HP. The improvements in 1950 brought it up to 108 HP. The s aluminum pistons in 1954 made another improvement. Less weight to get the engine reving-up faster, just like a lighter flyweel.

If it only had 92 HP I definately would not like it since my mid 50s 235 were around 120 so it would not be worth the expense of loosing 30 HP just to look like a 216,if I can remember correctly the 37 216s had 85 HP so the fake 216 look on the later 235s is what I am going to stick with. I would have to spend way too much money to get it to perform with the newer motors and what is the HP of a 53 216.

I agree

I hope my comments are suitable for this forum. (If not I'm sure I'll hear about it.)

Gene,

If one is going to use a 235 anyway, why not use the 1959 one? I can't remember but it seems that you have noted before that that is the superior 235 to all that were before it.

Or in the alternative, why not just stick a 261 in it?

The reason for my questions are that it seems that one would want to go to the best 235 and not quibble about the minor differences found in the early 235 and 235 of the 54 and later.

Unlike the 261 there must be plenty of 1959 or later 235 engines out there. Accordingly, wouldn't a 59 235 (or later) be what you would recommend?

With respect to both you and JD:

Also, I noted many times you have said that you drive your cars at 60-65 with no concern. JD says he does too. I'm wondering if in either case the engine and drive trains are entirely stock. I think you have mentioned aluminun pistons and a taller rear end. Don't know about any modifications JD may or may not have made. Any comments from either of you would be welcomed and possibly enlightening. Trouble for me is that I just can't relax when my old stock 41 with a 4:11 is tooling along at 60-65. I wish I could (relax) but I obviously don't have the confidence that you and others have.

Just wondering and my best wishes,

Charlie

BTW: I was going to work on the 41 coupe today but it is much too cold. About 55 or so. BRRRRR!

The 1959-1962 235 had a low lift cam which gave it more torque in the normal driving ranges. Also gave the best gas milage. The 1954-1955 PG and all 1956-1958 car engines had a higher lift cam which which increased HP over 3500 RPM and decreased torque at lower RPMs.

I often cruised at 55 to 60 MPH with my 1934 (4.11 gears) Tt did have aluminumm pistons and a replacement gear type oil pump. Also had the "improved" replacement rods with deeper groves for oiling. The present owner drives it at that speed also with no problems. The 1934 engine has only the oil troughs and not pipes that squirt oili into the dippers. and a long 4" stroke.
For years I drove my 1939 at 65 MPH with the 4.22 gears and it did have aluminum pistons after I replaced the cracked. Block. Several other members used to follow me on long trips and they had 1937-1938s with 4.22 gears and never had a problem. All of these engines whad been overhauled (not rebuilt) and gave no problems.I did install 3.73 gears in my 1939 about 10 years ago but just drove it that much faster. It goes along smooth and quiet at 70 MPH.
My father always drove our 1942 at high speeds with no problem.
In 1951 I drove my 1941 out to Colorado and South Dakota at 65 MPH. Engine was overhauled (for the first time) at 75,000 miles in our shop (Chevrolet Dealer-good mechanic).
Put on 3900 miles in 9 days.

Times a wasting there, buddy. We're not getting any younger...!

I Agree

I have a '50 with a 216 in it and 4:11 gears and a '40 with a 216 and 4:22 gears. We drive most of the time on 2 lane roads at 55mph but do have to run the freeway at 65 a couple times a month to get to a car show night that we attend every couple weeks. Both cars get right up and run down the road without any problem or concern. I have serviced them both but have not done any overhaul to either one. I will admit that they make a bit more noise going down the freeway than my '01 Silverado. We have enjoyed both cars along with another brand "F" that we have in our stable which also runs down the road keeping up with traffic without a failure. I think that to much is put into the troughs and dipper doomsday theory. Make sure that your car is serviced per the Chevrolet manual and park your rear in the seat and go. And enjoy. I know that myself, brother and Dad all have a great time running the wheels off em all summer long.
Happy Driving.
Don

I will have to look into the 59 to 62 cam since I have no plans on running any 235 over 3500 rpms,since I have 3.55 gears and overdrive I want the torque right off idle. I noticed my 57 235 really has not run as good when it had the 4.10 gears so I need to get my extra 56 235 on the stand and check it over and install the newer cam and continue with the fake 216 look for now.

I have been tempted with a 57 Olds J-2 motor so I might be forgetting about those sixes.