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Starter-ring gear and clutch bearing follow-up #231720
01/22/12 05:31 PM
01/22/12 05:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 221
denver
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3rdowner Offline OP
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For those whom have been reading me post regarding starter-ring gear failure and replacement, and subsequent clutch bearing questions, well, I am ready to put the starter on and give it a-go. However, I am concerned. This is the third ring gear since I bought the car 0n3 year ago. The first ring was defective when purchased, I just did know. It was a cast-in flywheel ring-gear. I found an NOS flywheel with a perfect gear, placed in the car, replaced the started with a rebuilt starter, and chewed-up another gear. I have machined the original gear off the flywheel, pressed a new gear on and am ready to put a starter on. Now for the question: which starter to place on the car? I have a rebuilt traditional starter as shown in the picture below, along with a modified starter consisting of a fly-back spring. I notice that when I spin the bendix gear back by finger, rapidly, on the modified starter, the gear sticks, or binds at the end, but I don’t know if that is important, as the centrifugal force is sure to free-it and send it forward.
I purchased the modified starter because I was afraid that the ring gear failure was due to the bendix gear migrating to the flywheel and chewing up the gear. For reference, the broken teeth on the flywheel were in two local areas, opposites one another, and were about 30 degrees in arc-length. As you can see from the picture, the modified starter gear sticks out farther than the traditional starter, yet doesn’t extend as much. If the original problem was caused by the starter gear migrating to the ring gear, than the new starter is beat, if not, better engagement is best. OMG, what to do? I am NOT in the mood to pull the trans out again. Thoughts?

http://imageshack.us/g/854/startersext.jpg/

Last edited by 3rdowner; 01/22/12 05:34 PM.
The Filling Station 1912-28
Re: Starter-ring gear and clutch bearing follow-up [Re: 3rdowner] #231726
01/22/12 06:37 PM
01/22/12 06:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 221
denver
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3rdowner  Offline OP
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denver
Embedded pics...


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Re: Starter-ring gear and clutch bearing follow-up [Re: 3rdowner] #231743
01/22/12 07:42 PM
01/22/12 07:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,046
San Leandro, CA
Rustoholic Offline
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Rustoholic  Offline
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San Leandro, CA
Hi 3rdowner,

I don't know what's causing the damage, but you mentioned that the areas of chewed up gears are opposite each other. According to Ray Holland's 'School's in Session' series, the 4 cylinder engine stops in one of two locations and the ring gear teeth wear corresponds with the starter engaging in these two locations.

I suspect the problem takes place when the starter engages or disengages, not as a result of the bendix gear occasionally migrating out to meet the ring gear. If this were the case, the location of the messed up gears would be random.

Good luck!
Dean

Re: Starter-ring gear and clutch bearing follow-up [Re: Rustoholic] #231752
01/22/12 09:09 PM
01/22/12 09:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,663
Vancouver, WA
AntiqueMechanic Online happy

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The gear on the starter has a pin that is spring loaded that applies pressure on the gear to the shaft and to a certain extent holds it in position when not engaged. Is this pin there and free?


devil Agrin


RAY
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If you need a shoulder to cry on, pull off to the side of the road.

Death is the number 1 killer in the world.


Re: Starter-ring gear and clutch bearing follow-up [Re: AntiqueMechanic] #231758
01/22/12 10:24 PM
01/22/12 10:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 221
denver
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3rdowner Offline OP
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denver
The pin is there. Upon review of the post by Rustoholic, along with an observation by my girlfriend, yes my girlfriend, I may have a cause. While she was turning the crank during installation of the trans, she noted that crank was hard to turn at opposite ends, and that might be placing stress on the ring-gear. I told her that was due to the compression stroke. However, I have failed to acknowledge one bad habit with the 26. I typically do not retard the spark when starting. My 28 has the spark on the steering wheel, but the 26 has it at the base of the column. By failing to retard the spark, any kick-back goes directly into the teeth. And the pattern reflects the point of ignition. If this is it, I feel like a dope, truly. Thoughts?

Re: Starter-ring gear and clutch bearing follow-up [Re: 3rdowner] #231768
01/23/12 12:05 AM
01/23/12 12:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 221
denver
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denver
Went with the traditional starter, car is running. Cleaning up garage. Nice weekend realy.

Re: Starter-ring gear and clutch bearing follow-up [Re: 3rdowner] #231777
01/23/12 12:37 AM
01/23/12 12:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,281
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
1928isgreat Offline

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A couple of interesting thoughts.

The first being a few years back I broke a bendix spring by accidentally starting the 28 fully advanced. One of those things you only do once.

Secondly, your other half cranking over the engine. I like that. Must speak to my wife about that one.

Cheers

Ray


Some say "Street is neat". I prefer "1928 is great"

I have documented my 45 years with a 1928 Chev Tourer, from 1973 to 2018, and regulary add other items that I hope are of interest to others. Your comments are most welcome.The story of the Red Chev can be viewed at http://my28chev.blogspot.com/
Re: Starter-ring gear and clutch bearing follow-up [Re: 3rdowner] #231781
01/23/12 01:00 AM
01/23/12 01:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,663
Vancouver, WA
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In hand cranking the engine you will find two "hard" spots.

If you are starting the engine without retarding the spark that will definitely do damage. However, you should be able to tell from the procedure if the engine is "kicking back". If it does "kick back", damage is a given.

The only time you will not be subject to damage without retarding the spark is if the starter and battery are so strong they overcome the ignition before the engine reaches TDC. However, don't count on it. This applies to all 4-cylinder engines.


devil Agrin


RAY
Member Chat Group - Non-Geographical Region

Chevradioman
http://www.vccacolumbiariverregion.org/



If you need a shoulder to cry on, pull off to the side of the road.

Death is the number 1 killer in the world.


Re: Starter-ring gear and clutch bearing follow-up [Re: AntiqueMechanic] #231792
01/23/12 02:05 AM
01/23/12 02:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 221
denver
3
3rdowner Offline OP
Backyard Mechanic
3rdowner  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2010
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denver
Thanks Ray, I am crossing my fingers, but the practice of retarding the spark is done for a reason, and I agree, it is a potential for damage.

Dave


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