VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 Distributor Points

I had a somewhat embarrassing incident today. I drove my truck for the first time in about a month. It was hard to start but I figured it was because it was a while since I last ran it. When I was a few blocks from my place on a four lane road, it just quit and I could not restart it. I had to tow it home with my tractor to my great embarrassment. I eventually determined that the points had worn to the point that they no longer opened, and there was plastic fillings in the distributor.
Should I have adjusted the points within the last 1000 miles, is there something wrong with the distributor which causes it to wear away the points, or are the points just bad quality?

I had a distributor do that to me with the plastic points. Did not lubricate it. My distributor oxidized after sitting for only two weeks (vehicle was outdoors). It was rough enough to chew down the plastic and permanently close the points. They burned up nicely. Then again, I was on Guam where the air is full of salt.

My 2 Cents

Fredneck

Just stick in new points and condenser. Lots of parts places carry them. Be sure to check the grease in the cup as well as put just a tiny dab on the shafts cam. Make sure the ground wire is making contact with the pushrod/lifter side pan. Good luck. Charlie

Jon,
That is amazing....actually two things are. You have driven that great truck 1000 miles and you took it out in the winter.....good for you.

Put a very thin film of grease on the cam - it will lubricate the rubbing block.
Then buy the points from a different sorce, they should last long than that. The original points had a hard fiber rubbing block. Much beter than plastic - made in China

I haven't see points with a phenolic rubbing block in many decades Gene. Do you know of any source for them besides NOS? I always felt uncomfortable with the plastic ever since it came out but in actuality I've never had a problem with excessive wear with the plastic if the cam is lubricated.
Jon, last pictures I saw of your truck it was just a bare frame. Have you gotten to the bodywork over the winter? I'd like to see some pictures of it now if you have any posted.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

The last set of points I purchased had the Phenolic rub block, they came from NAPA> I carry a set of NROS points in the tool kit. Actually do not need them now as I have gone petronix but in case of failure I can put it back to stock.

I never lubed the cam.
I will try to get NOS points on ebay.

About driving my truck: My goal is to have an as close to original truck as possible while not being afraid to use it gently as my regular driver. I am not afraid of a little wear occuring. I also like to prove that 235s, radial tires, disk brakes, 3.55 rear axles, turn signals, or dual master cylinders to be unnecessary, even on the interstate (well, maybe turn signals are necessary )

About the bodywork: I just bolted on the necessary parts. Its sort of a rat-resto now.

Thanks for the help.

I get purty good quality points from NAPA for the '53, and I use a little red grease on the point opening cam each tuneup (check timing, clean the carb bowl with B-12, check points, set dwell, clean the inside and outside of the cap with WD-40 then blow dry with compressed air, adjust valve lash, check the vacuum with gauge, clean battery cables and add water to battery if it is low. I don't always change the points, just if they look burned, I also clean and gap the sparkplugs if the old car is running smooth at tuneup time, if it is missing at all I will change out sparkplugs usually 3000 miles or every other oil change on the 235. I never run it over 1500 miles on a oil change and chassis lube. usually I change oil in the spring and fall, tuneup in the spring, adjust brakes and change brake fluid in reservoir in the fall.
I used to pack the wheel bearings every other year, but don't drive that much anymore. Now I change the coolant every other year (50% Zerex and 50% distilled water) clean battery cables every year and . The last time I changed spark plugs and points was in 2003.

It also pays to keep a journel on each of your old cars, battery changes, new tires, tuneups, oil changes, lubes ignition changes. anytime you repair or add an accersory, etc., etc.

On the '68 I change the oil about every 2000 miles it has 125,000 miles on the 327 and she uses a qt. of oil every 1000 miles. I bought a Petronix and a super dupper Petronix coilfor the 68 but went back to the points and condenser combo pair and stock coil after the Petronix died a sudden death on tour in Fort Worth. The stock stuff is a snap to change and adjust on the '68 anyway, because of the window in the distributor cap.

Doing all of these jobs usually keeps me out of the beer joints and pool halls..... which is mandatory with the Boss....
I change oil and lube the '28 every tour, even though she don't show to use any oil, her oil get's black really quickly, I always oil up the valves about every other day of touring. I guess the extra may run down into the pan, some runs down on the tappet covers. She also loosed grease from the transmission, I haven't done anything about that yet, but I did change the seals in the rear wheels and put a new gasket on the rearend inspection cover. I wanted to check the gears. They looked nice and new. sometime in the past it appears the ring gear or differential came apart and scarred up the inside of the inspection cover.

Thanks for the new picture Jon. I gotta say, you go more moxie than I do. After all that beautiful detailing to the chassis to take that out in the wet weather would absolutely tear me up. I’ve been caught in the rain by accident a couple of times and I’ve only redone the running gear, haven’t got to the frame yet and I just about cried. I spent the rest of the weekend wiping mud and crap off the purty parts. I drive it a couple of thousand miles a year but only when the weather is nice.
You sure have a nice base to start with on that one. Looking forward to seeing it when it’s finished.

Glyn, you didn’t say when that purchase was, twenty-five years ago????? I’ll check with the NAPA guys next time I’m into town but I’d be willing to bet they are stocking the same stuff that the rest of them are. Probably made in Mexico, seems like most of the ignition production was moved down there years ago.

I’m not even gonna comment on you Mack, you obviously have way to much time on your hands! Unless your just spoofin’ to make us feel bad. Just kiddin’ buddy, I spend a lot of time under the hood also, going into the fourth summer I’ve had the old gal and I’ve never had her fail on the first turn over, except for that one time in front of the Chevy Service Manager and a hand full of his mechanics who were admiring that old Piece of Chevrolet equipment. After boasting about how I did all the work on here she just didn’t fire, but then it helps to turn on the key. The damage was done, the image was ruined and talk about embarrassing!
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I tried using my cub as my bad weather driver but 6mph is kinda slow. However driving a 1941 Chevy truck in the rain is a much lesser sin than junking a 1941 Cadillac sedanette.
I hope to get a WWII Chevy truck to use as my winter driver at some point.

I am lucky to have a good stock on Delco points from 30 years ago....and condensers. I would prefer to use the 30 year old Delco condenser rather than the new imported junk.

For best results the point gap should be checked after 1000 miles and every 5000 miles there after. Should be replaced at least every 10,000 miles. Back in the "day" many of our customers had a tune-up every 5000 miles at which timme we would replace the points and condenser and and often the spark plugs also. Some times just cleaning the plugs is all that was necessaary. With todays unleaded gas the cleaning has becaome a thing of the past.

Down here in sunny NC, whenever I go to NAPA they are most accommodating. They have a large stock of stuff and are willing to spend time with me looking up parts. If they have to order anything, however, there is a flat ten dollar ($10.00) fee for shipping. Therein, for me, lies the rub.

AutoZone and Advance do not charge for this service. AutoZone is an okay store here but most time the instant clerks are about as knowledgeable about what you're asking for as you'd expect Goldie Hawn to be. Most times, I use Advance. In any case, I'm more comfortable using a place that has an relatively older clerk who most times says, "yeah, Charlie, I remember that."

Back to the points? How do you tell the phenolic rub blocks from the plastic?

Charlie

Please Jon, don't tell me that you junked a 1941 Cadillac! My first car was a 1941 Caddy, paid $200 for it in 1958 and drove it all thru high school. I sold it to buy a 51 Chevy that was more reliable and got better than 4 miles per gallon. I've been looking for one of them to restore for 30 years now and have only run across three, all of which were out of my range.

Gene, old points, plugs, coils, regulators I'd buy, not much could happen to them sitting on a dry shelf. But having worked on some old radios as another hobby of mine I've found that paper capacitors even new in the box will age on the shelf the values can change and they can leak. Has something to do with the paper make up I believe. Even the caps with a poly dielectric can show problems as the foil (aluminum) deteriorates. None of them are completely sealed and moisture works its way in over the years. Ray would no doubt know more about the reasons and I'd bet he replaces all the caps when he restores a radio and trashes his really old stock of paper capacitors aka condensers.

Since I've had an oil burner for the last 8,000 miles, I've pulled the plugs a couple of times each summer and cleaned them. Never thought much of those little AC spark plug cleaners that ya hung on your bench or roll about. However I did end up buying one of the Harbor Freight copies, (a real piece of crap I might add) it does manage to get the last little bit of deposit out after I've picked the big clunkers out by hand. Back in the day it was cheap insurance to just change out the plugs at tune-up time but they've gone up in price a bit and many plugs are even getting hard to find. As long as the electrodes aren't burned and the porcelain is clean and not damaged I don't see any reason for not reusing them. I’ve never been a believer in the one plugs better than the other storys, they are after all basically just an electrical feed thru into a high pressure/high temperature chamber.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny, you are correct-replace all paper caps.

I have many old paper caps and they are displayed in the original containers by Chevrolet. I also have, and display, trays of old resisters, along with all of the original test equipment by Chevrolet.

Phenolic sheet is a hard, dense material made by applying heat and pressure to layers of paper or glass cloth impregnated with synthetic resin. ...
Phenolic is a lamination.

Plastic is composed of of various organic compounds produced by polymerization, capable of being molded, extruded, cast into various shapes and films, or drawn into filaments used as textile fibers.
ie,Plastic is a molded, or cast homogenous material.......
Anyway, Charlie,.... that is what we learned here in Texas where both are produced.....

Come on MrMack. We don't need no chemistry lesson. I mean how do we tell one from set of points from another by a-looking at the critter.

A set of points ain't gonna say anywhere on them, "Now, this here set of points has a cheap plastic rubbin' part" whilst another kind wont say, "this here set of points has a gold old phonetic (too hard to spell that other word) rubbin' part." You see what I mean? We don't want to have to run down to the nearest university and get those itty-bitty rubbin' pieces analyzed (assayed, to you).

Tell us what they look like in layman's language and terminology so that we (I, if I'm the only not getting this) can understand. Does one look darker than another? Pink versus white? Can you put a thumbnail scratch in one and not the other? That sort of thing.

You've obviously been chatting with to many educated folk lately. I didn't realize it was tourist season in Texas.

Charlie

The phenolic ones are a reddish- brown-at least all the ones I have are.The one plastic one I have is white.
Neil

Charlie, If you know what a laminate looks like , it usually is brown,that is what you want. Sorry that I used a big worded word like laminate! heck I can barely spell it! I forgot that you were in sichiy a backwarded place as you are!
Anyhow here is a picher of some of it, actually it is a bunch of it!

MrMack, thanks. Now would it have been too much trouble to just have said the good ones are brown? I declare!

Best, Charlie

Actually them white ones can be many times better than the brown ones if they are nylon or Delron (actually it is normally black). If you rub your fingers over them and they feel as slick as greezed owl poo then they are probably nylon. They also should be shiny as new penny and ownly slightly dented by a tough thum nale. Unfortunately them orientals lurnt to put PE or PP instead of that spensive nylon. Just remember that some of that brown stuff stinks too.

As Alice said, "This is getting curiouser and curiouser."

I really don't know that the phenolic brown ones are better. I have had white ones, brown ones and black ones that didn't wear out the rubbing block parts. Most of the bad'uns I have had burned the contacts because of bad condensers first. I always use a small dollop of red lithium grease on the cam, and check to be sure the shaft bushings and cam surfaces are smooth. My Bud had a problem with one on his 53 where the springs and arms below the point mounting plate wound around the cam and caused havoc.

Thanks MrMack. We'll keep chasing this sucker "til we get it corralled.

BTW: I like your new Texas logo. It shows all the things we'uns outside your beautiful state think of whenever we hear the words "Lone Star State." A longhorn, a pair of Acme cowboy boots, an oil well and -----lunch.

Charlie

Charlie, I was hopeing that you would like the Avatar. I worked it up for one of our tours. Yep that lunch item is like having a traveling lunch bucket. It is way better than shrimp or chicken, and you don't have to pluck any feathers. and it cooks right in the shell. "Armadillo on the half shell"....

Hey Mack, for that lunch, I’ll but you’re planning on serving up Rattlesnake for an hor’dourve?

Ray, I’ve been looking for some of the old Chevrolet test equipment but I think I’m too late, I think it’s all been scooped up, I haven’t found any yet and I’ve been scrounging a lot of swap meets the last few years.
I’m thinning out my 300+ radio collection and about the same in old service grade test equipment and I’ve probably got a wheelbarrow full of old caps, some might be good for re-stuffing when you don’t have an original but most are postage stamps, bumble bees or no name wax. I’ve also got to thin out the old carbon resistors, before I knew any better I was buying NOS dog bones and bags of NOS carbon resistors, only to get then home and find out they had drifted so far out of line that they were unusable. I don’t know why I’ve kept all that junk but most all of it’s going to go along with all my aviation stuff as I turn my hanger into an Auto Shop. Gonna hit number 68 this summer and with the 32 I got left I’m gonna devote about 98% of my time to preserving a little of GM’s history.
I wish there were a way to re-stuff the old auto condensers. The new imported stuff might be just fine electrically but the cases don’t fit the clamps half the time. By the way, have you ever seen any specs on the values of the ignition and suppression condensers that GM used? I’ve not seen anything that matches up the values with the part numbers.

Chipper, I’ve never seen the rubbing blocks in black, that’s actually the UV version of Delrin. But just as often it’s seen in white and commonly in the Au naturel state, which I’ve used often. It makes a great bushing material and is a real pleasure to machine, no chips, no dust just a bird’s nest when you’re finished.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL