VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Electrical - 6 volt A case in favor of a 6v system.

I’m always reading about people up dating their Advance Design truck to a more reliable 12v electrical system. Fact is, when I first brought my 1950, 3600 to her new home I had my doubts about a 6v electrical system because of all the negative press it was getting. But, after applying some plain old common sense to the subject, I couldn’t see the logic in updating or modernizing unless I was going to run a bunch of 12v accessories. After all, this truck was still in its stock form and it was good enough to take a lickin’ for 56 years of regular use as a village utility vehicle and was still tickin’. That was the reason I decided rather than update or modernize this truck, I’d restore it to the way it came from the factory in 1950, factory stock as close as possible.
So in the fall of 2006 up on blocks she went and all the running gear and electrical was “restored” before I even drove her around the block. Now there are many different degrees or ways you can think of a restoration. At one end of the scale it simply means to do just what you have to, to get it up and running, even though it might not be completely reliable. Then at the opposite end of the scale there is the guy that pays meticulous attention to all the tiny details in order to duplicate what Chevrolet did from the factory. Well I’m kinda like the last guy, that’s what restoration means to me, to take the entire unit completely apart and down to bare metal and repair or replace anything that shows any signs of wear or deterioration. The end result is a truck that is just the way it was when it rolled off the production line. So in the spring of 2007 my running gear was like new, and the 6v electrical system also was new through out, except for the battery, which was replaced right before I bought the truck in ”˜06.
Since the spring of 2007 I’ve put about 8,000 miles on the truck, but only when the weather was decent, she’s seen enough bad weather in her lifetime. Never had a problem starting it and we’ve done quite a bit of night driving and I have to say the light are plenty bright.
When the weather turned sour last October, I parked the old gal in my attached garage and headed for the basement and my other hobby, old radios. The truck sat untouched till a few weeks ago when the weather broke and I decided to take a drive over to see a buddy. I never disconnected the battery so I just turned the key and stomped the starter and after about 10 seconds I had fuel up to the carb and she popped right off. The 50 miles to my friends house was uneventful and when I got home I shut her down and the snow hit us again. It sat for more than two weeks untouched and the other day the sun came out and the roads were nice and dry, so I decided to take it out for a little exercise. When I got in I could heat a bussing sound, and I looked all round thinking it was the florescent light over the bench but found that I had left the original tube radio on when I parked it, so it had been sitting there with the vibrator buzzing away for more than two weeks. To my surprise I gave it a 1/2” of choke, stomped the gas pedal twice, hit the starter and she popped right off. I drove around town stopping to do errands at four places and she started just fine every time.
Now this was an orfull long way around it, but what I’m saying is, don’t discount the reliability of the 6v electrical system, if it’s restored completely, it just might surprise you.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Just one more thing, I did install a 12v booster tucked up under the dash to power any 12v devices that I my have in the truck. I’ve used it for a 12v tach and a Sony stereo on a quick disconnect that mounts back up under the dash. I also have a RediRad unit plumbed in but that’s powered by the 6v system.

Your radio is wired hot and not through the ignition switch? With the radio on for two weeks you should have had a dead battery.

I have had similar good luck with my 31 whose 6V battery is now almost 7 years old. I have never disconnected it when I have put it away for months at a time and it not once has failed to start. It was purchased at Auto Zone and is about 500 CCA. The one thing I learned the hard way, is don`t ever disconnect the battery with the engine running. I fried the points and all the lights that were on.

hoppy

Yep, since the battery is a ballast for the charging system, don't ever disconnect it while the vehicle is running!

I keep my battery connected. but I do have it hooked to a AccuMate charger. the charger is hard wired to the battery with the connector coming out between the body and the bottom of the trunk lid. I just pull up, plug up, and walk away.

Yes JYD, I know. The truck never had a radio till I got hold of it. I found one in Texas and did a complete restoration and installation on it and I did another one for my buddy’s ’50, 3100 at the same time. New caps, new resistors, new cloth covered wire, new speakers, new knobs and bezel, new finish on the cabinets and the finishing touch, new labels for the inside and outside. They are installed exactly as the accessory instructions call for. I even found a distributor suppressor to go in the coil wire from one of the guys over at the Stovebolt.

And I’m not BS’n ya JYD, that radio was left on, turned all the way down for two weeks and the truck started like it had a full charge. I never would have believed it either and I fully expected for it to barely turn the engine over if at all when I realized that the buzzing was the vibrator. Seriously, I hadn’t been out to the garage in all that time and there taint no kids around my house playing in the truck, unless you can blame it on my cat who takes a nap on the blanket I leave on the seat. Maybe he wanted some mood music one night and forgot to turn it off!

Dad, this is the third winter, that I’ve left the battery in the truck connected up and with out a trickle charger, its always started in the spring. I do take the battery out once a year and clean every thing up and slip a pair of those red & black felts under the cable and re-grease the posts. And I check the water every thousand miles or so in the summer when I’m driving it.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Weird! Every radio in each one of my cars and trucks are all wired through the ignition switch...including the radio in my '51! Seems to me you would be a lot better off to rewire your radio through the ignition switch instead to avoid the radio being turned on when the ignition is off.

Sounds like to me that the radio is connected correctly and that it is only on when the switch is in accessory or the ignition is on. The radio in my 53 won't run the battery down unless the ignition switch is on AND the radio is turned on with the on - off- volume - switch.

From what Denny is saying it sounds like the radio is wired hot and the radio was left on with the ignition switch off.

This is a 1950, 3604 truck guys. The Chevrolet Radio Service & Shop Manual instructions (pg 40-41) call out that the 'A' lead be wired to the ammeter hot all the time. There is no accesory position on the ignition switch, it's either ON or OFF. As far as I can see, it's wired correctly to the Chevrolet specs. Seemed kind of odd to me also but since there was no accesory position on the ignition switch you would have to have the ignition hot if you wanted to listen to the radio with the engine turned off. And that's a good way to burn up the points.
Denny G

That is probably because very few of the trucks had a radio from the factory, even a 1/2 ton. I never had a truck larger than a 1/2 ton with a radio up thru 1965. I think the first was a 1976 4x4 Surburban.

I hear ya Mac! This truck went 56 years without a radio as did my buddy's half ton, well, we fixed that last year!
These radios will draw 5-6 amps when the volume is turned up, the only thing that I can think of in my case is that with it turned all the way down, it must draw a whole bunch less current. The battery is 585 CCA rated and just applying some common sense or finger math to it, at 5a draw, that should drain that battery in a little less than 5 days. Now if it's only drawing 1A or so since it's turned down all the way, then we are talking about several weeks to drain that battery. So I guess if that logic is correct, than it shouldn't surprise me that the truck still started. The actual number of days was more like 12 days.
But, the whole point of the thread was in support of the good old 6v electrical system with a good old Delco-Remy generator keeping it pumped up.

The problem I had when I was a kid with draining the battery by leaving the radio on was due to two things, passion and neglect. The first, leaving the radio on for a few hours with Dick Biondi spinning records while we were steaming up the windows and the temperature outside dipping down to zero. And second, 30W summer oil still in the engine getting cold, a five-year-old battery, dirty connections and a’41 Cadillac 346 cu.in. flat head to crank over when she finally said NO!

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

By the way, who's this Sal guy? What a grand stable full of Vettes he's collected, and how bout that stable!

I suppose that the volume control turned down low would draw less current than wide open. But I think that the vibrator and the tubes would draw the same with the volume turned down. if I remember correctly the tubes need 6 to 6.5 volts to heat up, that wouldn't be a whole lot of amps 5 amps at 6 volts would come out to about 30 watts. I don't do it here in Texas but when I worked in a cold climate we would lay a trouble light with a 100 watt bulb on top of the battery to keep it from loseing it's cranking power. It semmed to help. That was when we were too far away from house power to use the 120 V AC block heaters. I noticed in Canada that our motel that they had posts mounted in the parking lot with weatherproof receptals to hook up your block heaters.
I have as much confidence in our six volt systems that I do with the 12 volt systems. I was expecting the Big Three Auto makers to go to a 28 volt system before now. They could save a fortune in copper using smaller wires and cables.

The 1947-53 Chevrolet truck radio draws 6.1 amps at 6-volts. While it may draw more amps at full volume on a station I can't detect it on my equipment.

You can figure how long it takes to deplete a 6-volt battery.

It is recommended that a junction block unit, Group no. 2.483, part no. 986630 be installed when any radio is installed in a 6-volt unit. This block is divided into two sections. One side is wired to the ignition key and the other side is wired to the amp meter. This allows for a choice of a power source. Although it places an additional load on the ignition circuit, it prevents the driver from removing the ignition key and leaving the radio on. The other side of the junction block can be used for fog lights or spotlights or any other accessory that you wish to operate without the key being in the on position.

Denny --

Dick Biondi....... Now there's a serious memory. In the mountains of Western Virginia, we used to tune in to WLS in Chicago and listen to serious Rock and Roll from the big city. That and WOWO in Fort Wayne, Indiana if I remember correctly. I remember many a night up until 2 or 3 am listening to the radio turned way down so parents wouldn't catch me! Great memories.

Now about the steamed up windows........ Even better memories.

All the Best, Chip

oh yes, the sundown rules. local stations shut down, all we had was WLS.

summer,1966, 71 Drive-in, Attack of the 50' Woman playing. we were in my 55, "talking" and listening to WLS, in the back row. 20 minutes to her curfew and the Chevy wouldn't start. the points had welded themselves together while playing the radio.




the mags came from California.... on a train!!

Hey Denny! Ya just gotta pay more attention. As discussed in the other postings, Sal doesn't have the Corvettes....they belong to a friend of his. Sal just furnished the photos.

Ok, well Sal, I hope you buddy lets you exercise some of those beauties once in awhile. I don’t have the time to follow all the forums so I miss a thing now and then. I’m also active at the Stovebolt and several forums on the Antique Radio Forum site. Only so much time in the day and God knows I spend way too much time at the computer already. But anyway, that’s sure one nice collection.

This thing about the radio was driving me crazy, all logic tells me that if that was on steady for 12 days that the battery should be stone dead. So I put the Fluke to the input of the radio last night to see exactly how much the current draw was. After the tubes warmed and she settled down I was reading a steady 4.82 amps and as Ray pointed out, I didn’t notice any variation with it turned all the way up or down. Now that would mean that it should, as I figured drain the 585 CCA battery dry as a bone long before the two weeks are up.

So, the only logical conclusion I can deduct from this is, that the vibrator was shutting down intermittently if left on for a long period of time. That’s the only way that battery could have lasted.

It wasn’t the on/off switch; I had that totally apart when I restored the radio. That was well documented in my Webshots album, and the contacts were cleaned both sides before it was re-riveted back together. The detent was working just as it should also. At the same time I also totally disassembled the original vibrator cleaning and readjusting/rebalancing the points on my tube tester. That has worked with out any problems since the restoration also and that too is documented in the photo album. However most of the time I never play the radio for more that an hour at a stretch. I don’t know what would happen if it were left on steady for a long period. That’s about the only thing that would explain the occurrence.

Late night radio, oh yeah! Up here in the mid 50’s, (I turned teen-ager in the Summer of ’55) my buddy and I used to catch “The Night Train to Nashville” on a skip late at night; if I remember right it was WLAC. It was a black station and they played R&B, which was non-existent up around this part of the country. 55 years later a few of their commercials still run across my mind once in awhile, “Randy’s Record Shop”, “Ernie’s Record Mart” and the one that still brings a smile to me when I think of it was for “White Rose Petroleum Jelly, always keep a jar handy in your glovebox fellas”, now that was considered quite riskay back in those days and Biondi got kicked off the radio up here for suggesting a lot less than that. Ah those were the days!

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I miss the old Communication Act of 1934. That act created clear channel stations which had 50000 watts of power. Now due to deregulation especially in '96 or '97 and even later, the lower powered stations are not required to go off at sunset. And even the regular stations went off at midnight leaving the clear channel stations for night time listening. I used to listen to Los Angeles, San Francisco, Reno, and Denver while driving at night. Now I attempt to listen to San Francisco after midnight but there's just too much interference from the many stations on that same or nearby frequencies. Back in '34 and later radio stations were public service oriented - now they are a commodity to be bought and sold.

while living in Colorado Springs and then Casper WY we listened to KOMA, "the coma in Oklahoma" from OKC if we positioned our radios just right. but lost that signal when we moved to Arkansas

Denny: Great story about your truck. I agree about the 6 volt systems. The most important thing I've learned about them is clean, tight connections and grounds. Your say you have a Redi-Rad device. I just bought a 6 volt Redi-Rad for my '51 Fleetline. Haven't installed it yet. How do you like the performance of yours?

Welcome back Chuck, missed you.

Like the other guys that have reported, the thing works like advertised. The only thing is now, instead of just jumping in and switching on the radio to listen to tunes, I gotta worry about a couple of extra things hanging down from under the dash and programing or downloading the I-Pod, so then we got more cords hooked up and then get the confuser involved. But as they say, "ya can't have it all."
The simplicity of the '50 truck was what drew me back to it.
I think maybe I'm just making my life a little more complicated by wanting all this modern technology.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I hear ya guys.

For me, I hooked up my new Redi-Rad device to the stock radio as instructed, placed the small cord into my glove box. All I gotta do now is get it, start the car, open the glove box, plug in my 1"X 2" IPOD with 1,000 {potential} songs and down the highway I go. And my ipod runs on it's own battery for about 30 hours.

No wires, changes or alterations were made or are visible. Just sweet music coming from my stock radio speaker.

It's kind of like a time warp, 40's & 50's music playing in my old Chevy. In fact 2 weeks ago as I rode along the beach a B-47 flew over while an old Arty Shaw tune was playing....that was fun.

In So. Cal. there are No music radio stations and have not been for a long time, so this was a great solution. It's fun, cheap and easy to install. Or de-install should I ever feel the need. Life is good !!

enjoy the ride, with music...
Michael41

Thanks to everyone for replying about the Redi-Rad radio attachment. While the radio conversions and modern retro-radios are easy, I still like to keep the cars as stock. There's something about the tone of the old tube type radios that can't be matched. After all, rock bands today prefer tube amplifiers. And, if you ever find an old Hammond B-3 or C-3 electric organ, put it on ebay - there's a market for them!