VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 starting my 1927 chevy 4cyl

HI
Just got myself a 1927 chevy capital 4 dr sedan 4cyl. most of the time its hard starting, crank for a few minutes. The gas is there at carb, carb supposed to be rebuilt, new ignition and plugs and wires. When i get it going it run great, afraid to shut off.

I wondered if I need to retard timing more at start, I slide spark control all the way back, still starts hard. Can I adjust distributor so spark control retards more? any advice.

thanks Ken

You need to retard the spark all the way to start the engine then advance it all the way after the engine runs smoothly. If you leave the spark retarded it is my experiance that the exhaust manifold and the engine will get hot and you will not have full power. If you try to start the engine with the spark advanced it may kick back and mess up the starter drive. Also when the engine is cold close the choke about 3/4 and when the engine starts gradually open the choke. You need to get a repair manual to learn how to adjust the distributor and timing

Could be more than just the timing.

could be, but if you do it right by retarding the spark and closeing the choke that should give you a good place to start, next is the fuel being provided at the carb, is the coil and condenser good? and the spark strong at the sparkplugs? is the gasoline fresh (no more that a couple of weeks old)? is the air being supplied to the carb? Is the battery capable of suppling both cranking power and a strong spark?

Hello from Chicago
I wanted to retard the spark further and completely retarded the distributor as far as it would go via steering column control. I looked under hood to see if I could adjust to retard further, now I must mention that I am an old gear head from the 60s and 70s. This is my first historic vehicle. So naturally I went to find the distributor hold down loosen and retard assuming that the steering wheel control would follow. I did not find this adjustment, is it possible to adjust distributor like modern day ? Carb has plenty gas so I assume engine mechanically is sound as it provides gas flow vacuum as I find lots gas at carb. I been wondering if something between carb and engine is the problem, I also think it could be timing.
as I stated the problem is hard start, much crank 5 min or 8 min to start. once it gets going it runs great, I am afraid to shut off. One other bit of info when I advance spark it seems to change little.
any comment is appreciated
Thanks
Ken

Hello from Chicago
I wanted to retard the spark further and completely retarded the distributor as far as it would go via steering column control. I looked under hood to see if I could adjust to retard further, now I must mention that I am an old gear head from the 60s and 70s. This is my first historic vehicle. So naturally I went to find the distributor hold down loosen and retard assuming that the steering wheel control would follow. I did not find this adjustment, is it possible to adjust distributor like modern day ? Carb has plenty gas so I assume engine mechanically is sound as it provides gas flow vacuum as I find lots gas at carb. I been wondering if something between carb and engine is the problem, I also think it could be timing.
as I stated the problem is hard start, much crank 5 min or 8 min to start. once it gets going it runs great, I am afraid to shut off. One other bit of info when I advance spark it seems to change little.
any comment is appreciated
Thanks
Ken

I have "28" which took years to get to start easily though it always ran well and would then start easily for the rest of the day.
(1)If the distributor is not sufficiently retarded the starter will not spin the motor easily. It will tend to lurch as it tries to turn. The same thing happens if you try to crank start without retarding the distributor. Basically the handle will fly back and hit you. If it turns over easily then it is most probably Ok as far as distributor retard.
(2) Fuel. Take off the vacuum line to the carb and dribble some fuel directly into the carb and replace the line.See if that changes anything.
(3) Choke. Check that it is fully closing. Not just most of the way but all the way.
(4) Electrics. I presume that the battery is great otherwise you wouldn't be cranking up to 8 minutes. Starter motors can be a problem. On a cold start they drain the power and not enough is left to power the engine.Will the car start easily on the crank? Will it start easily using a 12 volt jump? Does it push start easily? If it does the above, have the starter motor checked thoroughly.
(5) Plugs. It does happen that people use old plugs that were left over when the world went to 14mm. Often these plugs are tractor plugs and are too "cold". I use modern 14mm plugs in inserts.
Beyond that there are the usual things to check like points and condensor. At the same time they start a lot better if started regularly. If I go away on a rally for a week it will start first kick every day. Bring it home and leave it for a month and it doesn't like doing it so I usually dribble in a little fuel and give it a 12 volt jump.
Hope this helps.

Terry
Thank you for info. Is there a way to adjust distributor itself so that I can retard further at wheel. sort of reset zero.

u are the best
Ken

Ken you can adjust the distributor by loosening the collar under the grease cap on the side of the distributor. The distributor swings through a fixed arc so if you take it back too far it will not advance enough and it won't have power and it will overheat very quickly.
If it is set correctly it will idle slowly with the lever retarded and then quicken as you advance the lever and then it will stumble as you push it all the away up.All at idle of course.
I can't see that retarding the distributor further is going to help starting. It should start with the lever in any position. The problem is that if it is too far advanced it will not spin quickly, will baulk and may destroy the ring gear in the process.
You say that the car runs fine once it starts. If the timing wasn't right it wouldn't run fine.
PS. There are no calibration scales/zero point etc on a Chev 4 distributor. That came later.

I had a similiar problem with mine which I finally fixed when I relocated the ground strap to the transmission. Before that the grOund was bolted to the frame and even though I made sure it was a good connection it would still give me trouble. Once I bolted the ground wire to the transmission it was immediately quick to start and has remained so.

Terry
I will implement these ideas and let u know

ken from chicago

Hi Ken,
Do you have an early early '27 with a "REMY" Model 374-A distributor,or a late '27 with a "DELCO-REMY" Model 635-B distributor?It's important to know,as both distributors have totally different timing settings.
Ignition timing with the "REMY" 374-A distributor is set so that when No.1 piston is at top dead centre on the compression stroke,and the advance/retard lever is fully retarded,the points will just be opening as the rotor button is in line with the
distributor cap contact for No.1 cyl.The "REMY" 374-A does not have any semi-automatic advance feature for ignition timing.
Ignition timing for a late '27 with the "DELCO-REMY" 635-B
distributor is set,so that when No.1 piston is coming up on the compression stroke,the points just open when the 25 degree ignition mark on the flywheel is in line with the pointer on the flywheel housing,with the advance/retard lever in the fully advanced position,and the rotor button is in line with the distributor cap contact for No.1 cyl.

CJP 29

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE INPUT AS I WORK TO MAKE MY 27 START BETTER. I HAVE AN INTERMITANT PROBLEM AS SOMETIMES IS SEEMS TO START BETTER THEN BEFORE. IT IS ALSO HARD TO REACH AS MY ARM AND LEG AND NECK ARE NOT LONG ENOUGH TO WATCH MOTOR WHILE CRANKING.
I SUSPECT THE COIL AND WILL PLAY WITH NEW 6 VOLT COIL WHEN DELIVERED TO DETERMINE IF THAT IS CAUSE. I ASSUME I SHOULD BE ABLE TO START WITHIN A FEW CRANKS.
ANOTHER ISSUE I HAVE IS THE CHOKE WHICH IF I OPEN AT ANY TIME I GET BACKFIRE UP CARB, SO I RUN HALF OPEN AND THIS SEEM TO WORK FOR PLAY BUT I WOULD LIKE TO FIX. ANY HELP WOULD BE APRECIATED

THANKS FROM CHICAGO
KEN

I would think that from your comment about the choke that you probably have a fuel delivery problem, It cold be a high float setting , stopped up inlet screen, or a stopped up intermediate or high speed jet, if the choke being half closed makes the engine run better. Is the air cleaner hot air connection connected with the metal flex hose to the carb air inlet?
You have some very good Chevy Four mechanics in Il. Have you tried to contact any VCCA regions in the area?

Mr Mack
thank you for your input, I will order a carb rebuild kit and focus on your input while rebuilding. Part of my problem is I want to drive it while the weather is nice. MY 8 yr old son and I ride around neighborhood a couple of times a day giving his friends and old ladies rides around, I enjoy that. So if I take carb off with work and all I will miss these rides so I will wait as winter is coming.

thank you
Ken from chicago

By all means KEEP on driving the car and the more it is driven the better it will be.

The carb rebuild kit includes a few gaskets and a nearly worthless needle/seat. I would save my money and just take the carb off. Remove the bowl and idle screw (noting how many clockwise turns until it seats). Get Berryman's B-12 or Wal-Mart carburetor cleaner in an aerosol can. Squirt (make sure to have eye protection) it into any hole you can find but mainly in the port where the idle screw was removed (best to hold your finger over the opening inside the throat opposite the idle screw port) and center of the carb where the bowl screw attaches. Spray let drain, spray again. Then repeat until there is not color or tint to the liquid that drains out.

Put back on and then see if there is any improvement. If not then it is best to send to a qualified rebuilder. There are only a few that truly understand those carbs but many that will tell you they can rebuild it. If they don't test run on an engine of similar displacement and manifold arrangement then it is best to find someone else.

One other thing about starting these early Chevrolets. Place the transmission in neutral, release the clutch (keep your foot off the clutch), and engage the starter with the spark in the fully retarded position. You will get more cranking RPM's starting with this procedure.