VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Educating the young to avoid the Coddington fate

We're all preaching to the choir, but you guys are right on target. I live in a relatively affluent midwest suburb, and the schools are great, with fantastic computer equipment, great teachers, etc. But if anyone brought up the idea of a "vocational skills" course, they would be run out of town on a rail. The response would be "How is that going to help them on their SAT test?"
I, for one, am doing what I can at home with my 10 year old son. He's helping to restore my 36 master sedan, and can now help bleed brakes, change plugs and tires. He even helped with the wood restoration. He thinks he's hot stuff because he can do things none of the other kids can.
The point I want to make is that even if these kids turn out to be "white collar" professionals (like I am), that doesn't mean that they can't enrich their lives through learning hands-on skills and restoring a piece of "junk" to its original function and beauty.
Let's face it. We're not going to convince school boards to re-introduce wood shop, metal shop, etc. into the schools. Maybe there's some way a club like this can reach out to kids that have some interest. I'll bet if you dragged 50 kids away from the video games for an hour and showed them how to make a dovetail joint, or how to replace an oil seal, maybe a couple of them would be hooked. That's better than what we have now. Is there some way we can be part of the solution? By the way, glad to see there are some younger enthusiasts on this topic as well. Keep at it, Bob!

Thanks jozeppi! If it wasn't for you older guys, I wouldn't have any interest in working on old cars or working with wood or metal (I can do that too). My dad and his friends basically taught me everything I know (it's not like I was going to learn it at school). My dad is friends with a local bodyman and got me a job there and I am learning a lot! Teach some kids guys!

"My wife has taught school for 35 years and can't wait to leave her beloved profession."

Same here! My wife has been a school teacher since 1967 and ever since she was four years old all she wanted to do was be a teacher. Well, because of the above issues with our local school district (and those are only the tip of the ice burg by the way), and due to the fact that the morons on the school board are running education into the ground, she retired three weeks ago. She couldn't take it anymore because the "education ship" is sinking! The school board is not interested in education at all. For them the monthly school board meeting is like a night out on the town. And, the members of the board can't even get along with each other at the monthly meetings, let alone take the time to find ways to give our kids a good education.

Those on the board seem to have a vendetta against teachers and the rest of the staff that works hard to educate our kids. Heck, my wife has needed text books in her class room for years because the kids have been sharing the existing books. And, to the day she said "enough is enough" and retired, she still never received the much needed text books!

JYD, they didn't understand me at school either, I wonder what is wrong with our schools?????

We (everybody) can start by showing the blue collar workers the same respect we show white collar workers.

In our large white collar upscale town the kids have new text every 3-4 yrs. When someone speaks up at a meeting they do listen and usually address the problem right there and then take it into private session and my office will here about it the very next day. (if it pertains to building services) That's the noisy wheel deal.

We do have the same problems you all have when it comes to the kids not getting what SOME OF THEM DESERVE. Seems school boards today are only concerned with published scores and how well the Distric is doing against the comparable other Districs in State.
If they wanted to re-introduce some "hands on" skills they might even inadvertly increase some of those overall scores. (if Johnny can't concentrate on World History and gets an F, maybe he can build a house and get an A). Sooner or later, I think the Boards have to catch on.
It has been mentioned here before about regions working with kids. The Lakeland Region here in northern Jersey used to give some of it's proceeds from thier car show to a Vo-Tech school every year. Maybe we can see more of that from our regions. Maybe we can have The G&D sent to a few librarians. Maybe I'll drop off a couple of back issues come September. If all you guys did that it might help.

Here's a crazy idea.
Does anyone have any connections with the Discovery Channel?
Maybe they can be invited to tape a segment at a National Show...?

I really like the idea of having a few G and D's in the HS libraries. Unless there's any chance the 'creeps' (crooks) could use any info in 'em to 'find our cars' (so to speak).

Excuse me Gator, "show WHITE collar workers 'respect'."

Hmmmm, these days I find it hard to show most any shirt color any respect unless I FEEL they deserve to be shown some respect.

Maybe that's just a 63 year old curmudgeon 'talking.'

Bill.

I believe we should show repect to everyone, regardless of what they do for a living.

One big problem brought to light on this thread is School Board members being out of touch with the common folk that pay most of the cost of education. Those "white shirts" still manage to volunteer thier time month after month and if they didn't do it then who will. I don't say this because they sign my check every two weeks, but rather in some sort of respect for an individual that can spend a lot of time on the kids in your town. I know, I don't spend nearly the same amount of time on my own kid!

If you don't like what's going on, if you think things should be differant, then run for the Board of Ed in your town and try to change things. Most Boards hands are tide with State regulations and stupid reasoning that you can't challange if you wanted to because it's law. It's at the State level that most agendas are ruled. Most States will not support change at a local level because the State wants to remain in control. It's a power thing and more money is controled by the State than the local level. If you don't play by thier rules then you are not going to get anyware with your notion that things can be differant.
Broken things do get fixed when the taxpayers complain. Little Johnny will get a new bus when you vote YES on the budget.
Guys, don't give up! this is the USA and people that don't care about YOU can be voted out of office as fast as they where voted in, no matter what color shirt they have on.

"If you don't like what's going on, if you think things should be different, then run for the Board of Ed in your town and try to change things."

That doesn't work either. Our local school board consists of five members, and they are not professional people and they are not paid. These individuals are just "Joe Blows" off the street, and most can't even run their own lives let alone a multi-million dollar school district!

Folks run for our local school board for several reasons: To boost their egos, to have a sense of power, to promote their personal agenda, or they have a vendetta against a teacher because Little Johnny (who is a zero anyway) got an "F" in English. Those are the type of people that constantly get on our local school board and it has been the same for decades!

Yes, there have been many individuals that have been elected to our school board in an attempt to "change the system". However, when individuals like this do get on the school board, they are ridiculed, out voted by the other members and made fools of! It happens over and over again. At the present time, we have one board member who is out spoken and is trying to make the other morons on the board to do the right thing. He has bashed them for the high raises for the administrators. He has bashed them for doing away with important curriculum. He has bashed them for wasting taxpayers money. He has bashed them for laying off teachers...and the list goes on.

The other four members on the board band together and they make him look like a fool. The local newspaper (who is pro school administration, pro school board, and anti-teachers) has published unfavorable editorials about this individual and, in doing so, he looks like a complete idiot to the unknowing public. Also, to censure this individual the board chairman filed a complaint with the state claiming that when this person ran for office several months ago, he made false statements about the present board members in the voters handbook. Bottom line, this board member, who is trying to make things right, will never be able to make any headway....ever! This scenario is typical and it has happened over and over again. And, education has become a political football because of it!

So...get on the local school board and change things? No one in their right mind would go into that lion's den...especially for free! Not until the state makes it mandatory that the folks on the school board must be qualified to be there in the first place will things change. :eek: :eek:

I like what you say and I agree with you almost 100 percent. My observations over the years have been orginization, orginization, orginization. If you want to be successful in politics you must have the support of a strong orginization behind you. Social,fraternal or religious or just plain money. You can't fight the system. You have to join them then you make changes.

"You can't fight the system. You have to join them then you make changes."

Man, isn't that the truth?! However, even when you join them it virtually takes years to make changes, and in the meantime our education system is suffering because of it and continues to decline. It is totally frustrating to say the least. Also, how many dudes with self-respect would want to join these guys and become "part of the group" in an attempt to try to make changes?

Unfortunately, whether you belong to a church organization, a club organization, a fraternity, or a school board, there is a truck load of political BS that you have to wade through just to get started, and most smart folks don't even want to go there. :( :( :(

And you are also correct.....you must have the support of a strong organization behind you if you are going to get anywhere! :eek: :eek:

Definitely a tough call. However, sittin' here bitchin' about it won't get IT done either.....

Altho I will admit, I know I wouldn't 'like' serving on a school board. Somebody's got to do it. Maybe the more-or-less 'regular' folks like 'us' really do need to get on those school boards?!?!?!?

Bill.

I can see your point of view, and agree that the people on the Board should be qualified. There should be a balance of folks with backgrounds in teaching, maintenance, and administration. I also felt there should be a student liaison on the Board.

I feel sorry or the folks in the districts that are not getting a fair deal. My own Board has made lots of very bad decissions, and those responsible don't get re-elected. I also agree that unfortunately another one belonging to the "click" get themselves elected.

I would rather see the qualifications for Board candidates set by folks a little closer to home, like County or Local. The State is too far removed from the local realities. You just have to keep those "clicks" from stacking the deck. I think that's were reform has to start.

Originally posted by Ed Smyth:
"You guys know the saying "there are those who make wonderful things happen and those who wonder what happened". I sympathize with the issues and concerns expressed above; I started this thread to show the idea that somebody out there IS doing something about these concerns. The most interesting - and key - piece about it is the museum's support to keep this process going. This seems to be an example of how local actions by involved people created the solution."

This conversation has been great, however, kudo's to Ed for hitting the nail right on the head.
Unless we all give a little more time and effort to what's going on around us we have a good chance of loosing it all.

Hope you don't mind a slant on this from across the pond.
We have the same problems here in the UK.
Our school sports don't have winners or loosers???
There is no such word in schools as failure???

Our school systems are different but now anybody & every body can get a university degree, the government changed our technical colleges to universities, So if you have a degree in "Idiotoligy" you don't want a blue collar job. We now lack skilled trades people but have an abundance of white collar workers so up the paperwork & beaurocracy to give these "university" educated people desk jobs.
After leaving the Royal Navy I was a plant fitter working on dozers,cranes etc.
Now I'm South East Area Field Service Crane Technician,
NAH!!......I'm a Plant Fitter & I still mend cranes.

"There should be a balance of folks with backgrounds in teaching, maintenance, and administration. I also felt there should be a student liaison on the Board."

Absolutely! That is what is wrong with our present system....no one on the board is qualified to be there! Teachers and other staff members go to the board to explain how things should be done in the class room regarding education and the board has no clue as to what they are talking about. With unemployed welders, vindictive mothers, and the like, it's no wonder that no one has a clue! And, the other problem is that these morons on the board usually run unopposed when their terms are up, so all they need is one vote and they can get re-elected! This year we had a college professor run for the board (now there was the qualified person that we needed) and she was defeated because she ran against one of the "good old boys" already on the board.

This whole thing has gotten totally out of hand. With a superintendent that makes $110,000 per year plus benefits, a high school principal that makes $96,000 a year, and a couple of administrators that make $90,000 per year (and that's AFTER 35 teachers were laid off due to "lack of funds") you can see where all of the "textbook" money is going. And, with the average teacher salary hovering around $35,000 to $40,000 per year something is definitely wrong with this picture and very out of balance....especially when our school district is in a city that has a population of only 5,000 people!

Glad to see Kipper jumping in. I wanted to 'say' something but didn't know if I should til we heard from beyond the US of A.

Here's the deal from the UK on the news yesterday or the day before.

Some "district" ('area' or 'region' which is unknown to me) is doing away with the "F" grade. 'They' feel it 'damages' the child and "screws 'em all up" etc. etc.

They'll be changing a "failing" grade from an "F" to "DS" In other words, no more "F's." No more "failing" grade!!!

"DS" - (get this!!!) - indicates "Deferred Success."

I gotta tell ya, in my 'old fashioned brain' that is so much Bee Es it would fill the Grand Canyon!!! What the he!l is the matter with calling 'it' what it is, regardless of what it is????

This whole freaking world is 'passing' on the idea of responsibility. It seems like 'consequences' for our actions is a thing of the past.

Whatever.....

Bill.

Well said, 42bill!

I didn't mean to get up on the 'soap box.' It obviously bugs me that we're supposed to be so PC. What the hay, if the kid 'fails' it seems like he failed. I've always thought an "F" might be just what's needed to 'get the kid's attention' and help him (and/or his parents) get his rear in gear.

Apparently no longer the case!!!!!

Bill.

PC PC !!

My daughter got a divorce this year. When it started my grandson (age 15) decided he was not going to study anymore. As a result he got many "F"s". In response my daughter had him put in classes for problems and retards.

He pleaded to be put back in the regular classes. She agreed with the stipulation that first you must bring up your grades and he has.

Sounds a little rough but it worked.

Last week my grandson and I played golf. Had a great time.

I realize John's situation is 'just one situation' and a definite conclusion cannot be drawn for 'all' based on 'one.'

But it sure 'worked' in this case. And it 'supports' what a lot of 'us' our age would feel.

I'm glad to hear of the positive results under a difficult situation, John. Hopefully 'good things' will continue to happen.

Bill.

Hello All,

My wife wants to reply: If a child does not feel the sting of failure or disappointment, how is he or she going to learn how to handle the bigger consequences of failures in adult life?
We must prepare our children to accept hard challenges. We watched the British film " Mrs Minnever" the other nite on PBS. How would the British ever have won WWII if they had been less than what Churchill expected of them??!!!! They were successful in handling adversity.

kinda' like...Without some "Agony of Defeat" The "Thrill of Victory" just ain't as sweet?....