VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Radios, Tools, Accessories 1928 School is again in session!

Hi Students,

Welcome to the first entry to a new string on the rebuild of the 1928 engine. Our old string was getting too long and approaching the dreaded 13 pages.

Keep your notes and books ready as we will discuss spark plugs in the next class.

Ok Ray.....I enjoy tagging along. Don

Welcome to the new School thread. Still business as usual, so get to your seats and let’s get started.

Although we have not stuffed the engine back in the engine compartment we need to think about putting some spark plugs in it.

The general characteristics of the 4-cylinder spark plugs include a thread size of 7/8 inches and a 1 1/8th Hex drive. Projection is ¾ inch.

New spark plugs were probably sold as a set in an AC Spark Plug box.



The July 28 CSN tells us that prior to the Model AB (1928) that all prior models used the AC “B” spark plug.



Here is a box of 4 of the type “B” spark plug. Notice that the box end specifies Chevrolet.



This is a box of NOS AC 78S plugs for the 1928 Chevrolet. The 78 S plug is still manufactured, however it is not the same as the original 78 S in that the projection is only ½ inch.

Both the AC “B” and 78 S plugs in NOS condition are becoming very difficult to obtain and also expensive when located. In an attempt to seek a solution and an acceptable substitute I have obtained an Adaptor.



This adaptor allows the use of a modern spark plug in the 4-cylinder engine. The major disadvantage of this arrangement is that no non-resister plugs are available with a ¾ reach. This means that a resister plug must be used, however if the ignition system is in a good state of repair the results are completely satisfactory. I recommend that the AC R44LTSM6 plug be used in this adaptor. R=Resistor, 4=14MM thread size, 4=heat range, L=long reach, TS=Tapered seat with extended tip, M=special design electrode, and 6=point gap. When the plug is installed the plug gap is set to .025. Using the codes as listed you can select the makeup of the plug of your choice.

Hi Teacher,
Someone once told me they obtained a worn-out set of spark plugs of the two-piece variety and used the lower halves as adaptors for modern plugs. However, I was not aware that the adaptors were "obtainable" for this purpose. Very interesting.

Raymundo, are these adapters only available with the internal machineing for the gasketless tapered plugs? Next question from whom are they available? I haven't seen a lot of publicity in print for them. Did you think we were never going to ask?.......

The adaptors are available from me and are only for the tapered seat. If you can find a plug that is non resistor, and has sufficient reach, I could provide a flat seat adaptor. Didn't make them as I did not see a need.

I have used the resistor plugs in both the six and the four cylinders and haven't had any problems with their performance at all, some may shy away from them but I don't have any problems with them as long as the coil and the plug wires are in good shape and the rest of the ignition circuit is in good condition.

The engine in now assembled to the point that it really needs to be installed in the car prior to further work. As with any project, the best of plans are laid aside and modified as you go along. This project was no exception. With the engine removed from the car it provided an excellent opportunity to clean and paint the engine compartment. And if you are gonna go that far you are not going to miss the chance to rebuild the steering sector as it is now so accessible. The firewall was painted black with a paintbrush sometime in the past so since it is devoid of any attachments it must be repainted the proper color. And did I mention that if you are going to make all these improvements you may as well install a new wiring harness?



So here are the results of those sideline projects.

Of course while the transmission was out of the car it must be addressed also. Although, I had just refreshed the transmission when I first purchased the car I decided to build yet another transmission to reinstall. And………that means full inspection of the clutch plate and the throw-out bearing. The bearing had been replaced when I did the prior transmission work so it was cleaned and reinstalled. I decided to try another clutch plate for this assembly. After all this work it was time to reassemble the engine and transmission/clutch assembly.



This is the configuration I chose to reinstall the engine/transmission assembly. I also elected to try another U-joint and speedometer drive assembly.



One final look at the engine compartment. Firewall has been painted, engine compartment painted, steering sector rebuilt, horn rebuilt and painted, and that portion of the wiring harness in the engine compartment installed. Note the armored wire across the front of the compartment for the headlights.



Two VCCA members appeared at the shop at the wrong time. (Actually I knew they were coming so I lay in wait). With two more sets of eyes watching the operation it was very painless to drop the engine back into the frame. However, even with the additional help it is just about impossible to carry out this operation without scraping at least a small portion of the fresh paint. A tiny paintbrush took care of that.

With the engine combination setting back in the compartment the next operation is to install the dash instruments (which also received a complete restoration and plating as necessary). When we return to the engine it will be time to prime the oil system and install the distributor.

Well, Raymundo, sounds like you will have a "almost new " 75 year old car!

Ray, I'm reminded of a '29 F*rd roadster I had several years ago. I removed the steering column to install a new bushing and decided to repaint the column, as long as it was out of the car. Then the steering column looked better than the rest of the car. The simple $15.00 repair wound up costing about $14k and took 2-years!! I now try to keep from fixin' what ain't broke!!
-Bob

the 28 is looking good!I dont want to get off the subject of your repair Antique,but i happened to notice your 4 hood latches.My 28 AB has 3 simular latches but they dont fall back as far.Actually i have to hold them out of the way or the hood scrapes on them.NOW for the 4th latch that was on my car it always fell against the fender and it was rather difficult to not chip it,also it didnt have the lower wedged bracket that is suppose to match the wedge on the hood .I took the darn thing off until i find an actual replacement.I think it must have been a FORD product??? Any comments on the latches ? :confused:

Hi 28chevrolet,

Relax, there are 4 (count them) different hood catches for the '28 Chevrolet. All of which are correct. It is desirable of course for them to all match. The proper catch is determined by the hood catch bracket. If necessary I could expand on this and describe each one, but it is probably not necessary.

The engine has been set in place in the engine compartment. The engine is secured there in three places. The front of the engine has a single stud that goes through the front cross member.



The rear sits on the second cross member and is secured on each side by a through bolt.




It is important to note that the two bolts are inserted through the bottom with the threads at the top. The second thing to observe is that all three items, the stud and two bolts, use a castle nut and cotter key. This is extremely important. A loose engine can cause serious problems and does major wear to the mounting bosses on the engine and the cross members. The two bolts are installed from the bottom in order to make the nuts visible each time the hood is raised to service the engine.

The oil filter and coil bracket has now been installed on the right front of the engine.



Students, you have had it too easy recently, because of the lack of homework.

HOMEWORK:

Who can remember what precautions must be observed in the installation of the oil filter/coil bracket?

For one thing, the bracket needs good electrical conductivity to the engine block which hopefully has good conductivity to the frame. (been there!)

-R

I agree with Mr Rustyfender, also make sure the bracket is not reversed or upside down ! the coil need's to screw to the top of bracket.

anti-seize needed?

Hey teach, Hey teach,
What about the AC Z plugs? Weren't they originally used in the '28s?

RustyFender

Your presumption is correct if we are using the original Remy 284W coil. In this era (20’s) the method of winding a coil did not tie the primary and secondary windings together at the ground end. Each winding, primary and secondary, were wound individually on an iron core. The internal condenser, connected to one end of the primary winding, was grounded to the center rod which ran through the iron core. To complete the condenser circuit the coil base had to be grounded, and this was accomplished through the coil/oil filter mount to the engine block and then back to the negative side of the battery, to complete the circuit.

If you are running a modern coil, grounding is not necessary, unless you have mounted the external condenser to the coil mount. (Just for fun, remove your condenser from the mount on your modern coil, remove the coil from it’s mount and lay it on some insulated material {rubber, cloth, ect}, with a jumper, connect the base of the CONDENSER to a good ground). Your engine will run exactly as it did previously.

n j horst

Although difficult, I’m sure some enterprising mechanic could make things operate if the oil filter/coil mount was upside down.

Gator

There are many places where anti-seize is used correctly, however this is not one of them.

I am puzzled why every student missed this simple question. It has been several weeks ago that this point was emphatically presented, however it was covered in more than one class.

As these two mounting bolts are placed in through holes in the block, the bolts are to be dipped in the “yellow snot” in order to seal them. Just another place for your engine to leak oil and very difficult to identify or find. To refresh your memory go back in the lesson plans and read this information again. ( Through holes in the block. )

ChevyChip

Let’s hear from one of the students about the AC Z spark plugs.

With the engine installed and bolted down, one of the steps remaining is to connect the U-joint. This has always been a difficult task. Although there is a special tool available that holds the forward ½ of the U-joint in place as you attempt to mate the two pieces and start the nuts on the bolts, or install the bolts depending upon the model, a make shift tool is just as efficient.



This simple tool is nothing more than a length of bailing wire. (Ask someone from the Midwest or South what bailing wire is. I have spent many hours sitting on the special seat attached to the side of a horse/donkey powered stationary hay bailer and poked the bailing wire through the blocks for hours at a time). If you look near the hole in the upper left you can see the end of the wire. Make a “U” shape out of a length of wire and feed it down and behind the front ½ of the joint. Pull up tight and bend each end over to hold as you connect the ½’s together.




This is from below the car and you can see the other end of the bailing wire. It is near the speedometer cable connection on the right side of the picture.



In almost every case the torque tube will not line up perfectly with the rear of the transmission. A jack placed under the tube can assist in the vertical movement. For the lateral movement, a small ratchet strap will handle that chore handily. After the U-joint has been joined and tightened, don’t forget to remove the bailing wire.

If the torque tube does not line up close to the transmission when free, the reason should be investigated. This may indicate that some component in the rear drive line is bent or damaged. In any case it is considered good procedure to loosen all the nuts on the U-bolts that attach the springs to the rear axle housing. Make the U-joint connection and then don’t forget to return the nuts back to the tight position.

No homework this time, however it appears all students need to review the previous classes.

Ray (teach)

I have a B.S. and two Master degrees along with other post graduate work. Your class is the most interesting and informative class of all. Thanks you for all your efforts and knowledge.

looking forward to continued class attendance.
mromano

Hi Teacher,
Very interesting U-joint assembly. I have two 1928 Chevrolet driveline assemblies and they differ from the one pictured. In both cases, the front and rear halves are stamped steel. The front half has four studs incorporated into it that extend into the rear half and the whole assembly is joined with four nuts on the rear side. When assembled, the U-joint holds four spherical bushings in which the front and rear Ts move. I have never experienced any trouble assembling the U-joint where I have needed any special high-tech tools such as bailing wire. I can generally get at least one nut started with my fingers and the rest are accessible by rotating the drive shaft. The situation does become a little more complex with a Johnson Overdrive.

As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. I find yours greatly enhance the discussion. By the way, I do use a 284W coil.

-R

Ray,

The jack supporting the '28 torque tube wouldn't happen to be a "Eureka #2 by Ashland" would it, and it so, is it for sale?

Hey Rusty Fender

I have two drive lines (in car and spare) and both have the stamped steel components in the u joint assembly. Interesting!
mromano

Ray, did you check the clearance between the rear ball half and the front half before putting the gasket and cork seal on the shaft ,or did you go with the same thickness gasket and seal as was used before the overhaul? I always used the standard seals and gaskets on the later models without doing any checking, but it seems that I saw somewhere that this clearance should be checked on the 28, am I just dreaming?

I can certainly relate to the hay-baling operations, boys were hired around our home place to tie and to punch wires, you had to be on the ball so to get the wires around the bale there were wooden blocks that were dumped in the press to seperate the bales the wires went into a groove in the blocks the tieboy inserted the wire into the block, the wire-puncher caught the end of the wire and punched it back thru the bale on the other end and the wire-tyer ran it thru the loop in the end of the wire and made several wraps to secure it they had to do two wires on each bale and the bale was inching thru the press all the time. and then someone had to catch the blocks as they came out the rear of the press and tote them back up to the guy feeding the press the puncher had to watch a mark on the press and dump a block at a certain time to make uniform length bales, I bet you also remember how much chafe and dirt was breathed in a day of baling hay!

Ray, since 2/3rds of my posting was irrevelent to the subject at hand, another senior moment, please feel free to edit it or delete it.

Fellow students: I guess Ray must be on Spring Break, lying in the sun on a beach somewhere.....Gosh! I hope he didn't get called back to active Duty, if he did wonder who is next?

My draft card says that I have to go right after the women and childen this time.

I dont know where the haybaling fits into this thread but I remember at least 6 years of the fork it in balers. Harvest was much easier after the automatic feed and tie units.

This has been a very informative line even though I am working on a 38 6cyl vehicle. I am still interested in the early technology and the various updates right through to current production.

I have not found (although not looked hard yet) someone down under the does the whitemetal bearings.

Tony

Tony, It is nice to see that someone is working on a "Modern car" like your 1938, (To me,Modern means, it is newer than I am)......

:cool2:

Hey Macky Wacky! A 1914 Chevrolet is newer than you are! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Ok Doggie breath, you don't have to tell everythang you know! just because you are a young-whipper-snapper!

Mromano ,

Thanks for the apple. Check the next entry for a discussion of the types of U-joints.

RustyFender ,

Very astute observation on the type U-joint that I used. I also have several of the multi-part units of the stamped steel variety. When inspecting my supply to complete this job, the after-market unit I used appeared to be the best of the bunch. For some reason the gear that drives the speedometer gear is stripped on several of my U-joints. Not sure what this indicates. Could be a lack of lubrication of the cable drive, speedometer, or the U-joint cavity did not have any/or improper lubrication.

For a picture of the use of the special tool to mate the two U-joint 1/2s, see page 74 of the Series AA-AB Repair Manual. The bailing wire works just as well if not better.

Oldie ,

Alas, the jack you see me using is of the era, however, a close inspection of the handle reveals a 4-letter word that starts with F. Can’t put my finger at the moment on a picture in a Chevrolet publication that shows a similar jack in use.

MrMack ,

I am not aware of any specific instructions about clearance in the assembly of the ball 1/2s other than rules that apply to any U-joints. As a rule, I start with several gaskets for a trial fit, if too loose, it is easier to cut a gasket for removal than to take apart and install gaskets if too tight. If I have missed a point on this assembly, please enlighten us.

MrMack ,

As a general rule, the procedures I have outlined in this series are the same for any engine assembly. Even if you don’t indulge in the operation of your Chevrolet this specific, at least you can appreciate the work done for you that has been farmed out.

Don’t have any recommendations as to who to contact in your land that pour the bearings and does the line bore. Perhaps someone from this forum will contact you with information.

Although I am making good progress and am on schedule, this project just seams to get bogged down with the minor problems. As mentioned earlier, when you have an engine out of the chassis, it is a good chance to clean up, repair, paint, and adjust any component that has been exposed or removed. The engine compartment was toughly cleaned and repainted. Excellent opportunity to replace the wiring harness, which I did. The steering box was rebuilt (more on that later). In the process of rebuilding that unit the steering lock and key mechanism was rebuilt. ( Key& Lock ).

As with most cars of this vintage the choke pull was inoperative and some innovative prior owner had punched an extra hole in the dash to install an aftermarket choke pull. (Don’t you just hate it when you find extra holes in places where they were not intended?)

Fortunately the original choke handle and holder were still present. They were removed, disassembled, and sent out for plating.




Next is to purchase a universal choke/throttle cable. Be sure and select one that the sheath is the same size as the original. Cut the sheath and cable at the end of the holder.



You will discover that the original holder was actually threaded on the sheath end. Simply ***** the sheath into the original holder.



The choke pull has a hole near the end and groves on each side. Bend the inner wire into a ½ “H” as shown in the picture. Make sharp bens so it will fit in the holder.




This is the completed unit and ready to install.



When installing the cable be sure to thread it through the holder prior to connecting to the carburetor. (All you students with 1928 vehicles stop now and inspect your vehicle for this holder).



Finished product. Needless to say, all the instruments, lighting switch and all labels were restored while the instrument cluster was out. Even the speedometer was rebuilt and reset to “0” miles. I do not consider this a speedometer resetting in the current context. The cable was broken when I received the car and actual mileage is only a conjuncture.

Homework: After the U-joint was buttoned up, what type and how much lubrication if any, was placed in the ”˜ball”?

(My apologies. Looks like the kids were playing while I was getting the lesson together)

That engine looks clean enough to eat off of. Show it to me in 1000 miles Also, good homework question. I did some research and found a couple articles regarding lubrication of the universal. The following is from June 1927 Service News page 23.



The manual states the universal joint should be lubricated with 600W every 1000 miles however, it does not state capacity of the universal ball. In my own case, I generally add enough oil to fill the bottom of the ball as any more would simply drain past the front driveline bushing, down the housing and into the differential. I occasionally pull the fill plug on the differential and allow any overflow to drain out.

Also, here is a picture of the proper tool for universal joint assembly from the repair manual. Another picture appears in the 1927 Chevrolet Service News.



Regards,
-R

I noticed (as pointed out in the picture )and is also noted in the repair manual that the Alimite connection was removed and replaced with a pipe plug in the rear housing thru which the universal joint is lubricated to prevent service people from useing a "high Pressure" gun to lube the U-joint as high pressure would force the heavy lube oil up into the speedometer cable,it also noted the Alimite connection should not be reinstalled, It went on to say that the housing should be "filled" with a low pressure gun or pump. I didn't see how much heavy oil should be put in when the U-joint was installed, but I remember it takes about one pint to fill it initially and then it should be topped off every 1000 mile interval.

And yes "Teach" when you leave the room and don't return for a few days the students get to discussing other things, I ,myself ONLY reply to their rambleings because I am weak and gulliable, and often get sucked into their stories! LOL!

Looks like I will have to give RustyFender full credit for his homework answer. Nice job.

Yes, we know what the correct procedure is; however I have disassembled more U-joints packed with grease than the 600W oil as specified.

The Service News page acknowledges some leakage from the rear of the transmission into the U-joint ball area. Over a period of time this excess lubrication drifts by the seal on the driveline and ends up as an overfill in the rear end. It has been the custom over the years to drain some from the rear end and add about the same amount to the U-joint ball area.

Thanks for the picture of the special tool for assembling the U-joint. It works almost as well as the bailing wire.

Final comment on the transmission. As usual, I rebuilt the one in the demonstration car. In addition to using the “yellow snot” on the gear shafts I use SOS (sealed one side) bearings for both the input shaft and the output shaft. With all the attention to the through bolts, yellow snot, sealing of the shafts, and the SOS bearings the leakage can be reduced drastically.

MrMack ,

I personally question the intent of the comment in the instructions that says, “fill the housing“. Since it does not include the word “full”, I read this as a quantity. In my opinion the word “some” is much more accurate.

There is no good place to stop when you start a project such as the one we have been following for months. So, out came the steering mechanism for a complete disassembly, refurbishing, and reinstallation.



This is an exploded view of the 1928 steering sector. This was the first year that ball bearings were used. Prior to this they used a series of washer type discs to adjust the free play. At the top of the picture is the side cover. Directly under it is a spacer that is placed on the end of the gear and shaft. The number of gaskets used on the side cover plate adjusts the side play. The next 6 items are the ball bearings and the races. A set of three are placed on the shaft, one set above the worm gear and one below. In the next row are the end plug, packing and the adjustable rod end support. The end support has a bushing, as does the main housing that supports the steering shaft. These two bushings were removed and new ones made on the lathe. The gear and shaft is also supported by two bushings, one on each end. They were also removed and new ones made to replace them. In the final assembly, the set of races on the right and ball bearings must be placed on the shaft before it is threaded through the housing. The left set is then placed on the end of the shaft prior to the installation of the end support, packing and finally the plug. Inspection of the gear will reveal that only a small portion of the gear is actually used in steering the car. As the end of the gear shaft is splined and not keyed, we can select a completely new and unused portion for the reassembly. Adjustment of the end support is to remove the shaft endplay.

What is not shown in the picture, and is a major component of the steering mechanism, are the three concentric tubes that make up the center of the steering shaft. (The steering shaft is in fact a hollow tube). These tubes are the spark adjust, throttle, and the horn wire sheath. After the steering wheel is installed the assembled tubing is inserted into the hollow steering shaft. The plug, as shown in the above picture, is then tightened to retain the lubrication. Several levers and clamps are installed on the ends of the tubes to complete the installation.

More homework:

What type and how much lubrication is placed in the steering housing when completed?

Heavy Oil! :p

Need a reference. That could be your best guess.

My reference was: Page 52, Owner's Manual, April 1, 1928 and the lubrication chart in the middle of the book. :p

Hey Teacher,
Very good timing on this subject as I just returned from a 200 mile trip in my 28 in gusting winds where I had to fight the car to keep it on the road. How do I remove play in the steering box other than selecting a different set of teeth on the steering sector? I have already tried that. I recently helped a friend adjust the steering box on a 31 model and the procedure involved loosening the cover and turning an eccentric bolt to change the gear lash. Unfortunately the 28 does not have that ability. Some have told me the only way is to fabricate an eccentric bushing for the sector shaft and press it into the proper position.

Thanks,
-R

Another great thread.......SUPER ! Don

Four cylinder steering, I did not intend to go there, but since RustyFender broached the subject, we will go. These instructions are specifically for the 1928 National AB, but most procedures also apply to other vehicles as appropriate.

This subject is best covered in an elimination pattern. Look for the easy answers and work from there.

1. Jack up one front wheel. Place one hand at 12 o’clock and one at 6 o’clock. Push the top in and out. If there is movement, use the special wrench and remove the hubcap. Remove the cotter key and tighten the nut tight. Push the top in and out. If there is still movement consider replacing the kingpins. If no movement make the proper wheel bearing adjustment, replace the cotter key, and replace the cap.

2. Place one hand at 3 o’clock and one at 9 o’clock. Shake the tire again. If movement, observe the tie rod end(s) and see if the movement is there. Watch the steering wheel and see if it moves in concert with the wheel movements. Make notes as to the location of the movement.

3. Lower that front wheel, jack up the other one, and repeat the process.

4. On a flat surface, push the car for a few feet. Let it roll to a stop without using the foot brake. Ask for some help from your supervisor and measure the width of the two front tires on the backside as high up as you can get your measuring device. Make a note of this measurement. Now go to the front and at the same level measure the width there. The front measurement should be 0 to 1/8 inch LESS than the rear measurement. If not correct, loosen the tie-rod ends and rotate the tie-rod to achieve this condition.

5. With the front wheels back on the ground move the steering wheel from side to side. If slack movement is felt, adjustments to the steering box are necessary. Loosen the clamp bolt on the end of the steering column. With the proper spanner tool (or in a pinch a set of large water pump pliers) tighten the worm-adjusting plug. Check the steering wheel movement again. If it still has movement, remove the housing cover. (Place a container under it to catch the heavy oil that is used to lubricate the steering box). Remove one or more of the paper gaskets and replace the cover. Check the wheel again. Either replace the heavy oil or remove additional gaskets. You have now completed almost all the adjustments you can perform on the vehicle.

6. Test drive the vehicle. If the vehicle tends to wander on the road, consideration must be given to removal of the gear box and replace the 4 bushings. In my opinion it is not necessary to try to install the bushings off-center. The movement of the pitman arm shaft to a new and unused set of teeth in effect returns the box back to the factory specifications.

7. If the test drive shows the steering linkage to be tight, and you still have problems with wander, it may be time to find a friend in an alignment shop. No provisions are provided for adjustment of caster and camber on the 4-cylinder vehicles, however by tilting the axle and shimming between the axle and spring perch some adjustment can be accomplished.

8. If none of the procedures outlined above improve the steering and handling, consider checking the NUT behind the steering wheel.

One thing that I have noticed on my 1928 Sedan is that the tires need to be kept fully inflated, to make it steer well. I keep at least 45 psi in them and check the lugs and rimbolts for rusty spots after driving several miles, a rust spot means a lug is loose and the rim is moving against the wheel, new Jaxon clamps are available from several vendors.When you have the wheel jacked up set a reference (hammer handle next to the side of the tire) and rotate it, make sure there is no wobble from a badly aligned or bent wheel or rim.

Thanks for the information. I was referring specifically to problems relating to the steering box itself. In my case, I disconnected the drag link and got a good hand hold on the pitman arm. I can rock it slightly but there is no endplay in either the pitman arm shaft or the steering shaft. This to me means gear lash. With the NUT sitting behind the steering wheel, I have about two inches play in either direction before pitman arm starts to move.

Thanks!
-R

I know that 600w oil is used in the steering box ! but what is the correct amount ? i did not see the answer teacher, to the last part of your question, trying to get some extra point's here!

I have been following this school for over 6 months with great interest. In fact I have printed out all pages to make a fine reference book for future work.
Just going back to the uni joint again, quickly.
I have used successfully for over 25 years, Castrol LMM (Australian terminology, US may be different) graphite grease in my uni with great success. I pack it full.
Another useful hint. A replaced the felt seal in the back of the bell (where it slids up and down the torque tube) with 2 "O" rings side by side. You have to 'lever' out the steel that is used to hold the felt. I also used a large "O" ring on the bell clamp as well. It works well, but is very difficult to keep in place when bolting up.

I had the speedo drive gears made as replacements many years ago. There are some still available through Australian part time Chev 4 parts manufacturer Derek Page, who some of you know. For those who don't and are interested in one. I can get and psot his email address

keep up the good work
Chris

Ray,
What happens if my supervisor refuses to help with the alignment procedure? She doesn't come near the garage when I'm working on the car, (She says I "speak in tongues").
Dan.

I have one of those kinds of "Supervisors" too she thinks I am "talkin'" to her! Here is what I do, I use a couple of the large coffee cans and a length of angle iron, set the coffee cans outside of the wheels and position them where the angle iron will lay on the can like a upside down V really close to the tire and use a strait edge across the side of the tire to mark the angle iron at the rear of both tires, also mark the tire next to the angle iron. Pull the angle iron out and measure the distance between the outside of the tires at the rear, move the cans and angle iron forward and rotate the tire to where the mark on the tires are even with the angle iron measure and compare the front to the rear, and go from there. (if the supervisor comes around she will probably ask if you are crazy, or if you are ever comeing in for lunch.)

PS: If you are rich like Raymondo, Chipper, Boltz and JYD you may want to use 4 coffee cans and two pieces of angle iron, to speed up the process and maybe you won't be late for lunch....!

Definitely cross me off of that list........dogs don't drink coffee! :eek: :eek:

Ok JYD but as much time as you speend down at the dump, you should be able to find a coffee can or two

Nope! Only Coors beer cans.....will those work?? :confused: :confused:

Nope only Folgers in the red can or Hills Bros in the red can, non-leaded won't work as well! and I almost forgot I put a piece of masking tape on my angle iron so I can see the pencil marks.... any more questions?....... or do you want a second opinion?

Mr JYD. MR Mack will not admit it, but as well as he has done in his professional & retirement life, he of all folk's would know that with a coor's can or bottle and bailing wire! anything can be done!!! we should all be humble to have mack on our side!

N.J. I have to give the old mutt a bad time or he would think I didn't like him!

Gosh....golly. He must then really "HATE" me. Te he he.

You are invited to take a look HERE.

Please read the note. Thanks, and your coorporation would be appreciated.

Geeze, I don't drink coffee either and can't afford the angle iron so use a tape and chalk. First raise front tires off ground and put supports under axle so load is as close as possible to when vehicle is resting on its wheels. Make a mark on each tire with chalk on a groove on the tread. Measure with tape. Rotate both tires to as close to 1/2 turn as possible and remeasure with tape. The difference is the toe in or out.

Gene I used to do that bit with the mark on the tire with chalk when I had a Model A F**d, my brother still crawls around on the ground with a tape measure, but he also is restoring a F**D. But that was before I spent all that money seeking a B.S.in M.E. degree, and thought I may as well use all that knowledge like trigonametry, Geoametry and Arithmatick!, some how I avoided the Spelling part of the English classes.

Hey Macky Wacky! Ya, it's been obvious that you avoided several English classes during your past career! ha ha!

MrMack ,

Your comments are examples of good maintenance on the older vehicles.

RustyFender ,

I understand what you are saying; however if you go to a new set of teeth on the pitman arm shaft, theoretically that is back to factory specifications less the minor wear on the worm gear. As we have discovered there is no adjustment for mesh on these two gears.

N j horst ,

The steering box is to be filled with the 600-weight oil. Then the instructions say to replenish it ever 1000 miles. As the gearbox is notorious for leaks, I use both the oil and a combination of grease. They will mix to a certain extent and some of the resultant mix will remain in the gearbox.

Chevguroo ,

You are not the only one to use grease in the U-joint ball. Just as I use it in the steering box I also use the same combination in the U-joint. I have disassembled several gearboxes and U-joint balls to find a preponderance of grease as the major lubricant. I like your idea of the use of the “O” rings to help seal up the U-joint ball.

MrMack ,

Your method of checking the toe in has some merit. I should caution that you should repeat the process more than once to remove any error introduced by a bent or crooked wheel.

ChevyChip ,

Again this is a method of arriving at a solution to the toe in. I personally, would want the full weight of the car on the tires when the measurements are made, however your method is better than doing nothing.

If you wish to really spend some time at this project and achieve more accuracy, jack up one wheel, provide a steady rest and with a lead pencil, mark the tread as you slowly rotate the tire. Do the same procedure on the other side. With the weight of the car on the tires, make the measurements. After all, with a standard of 0 to 1/8 inch in toe in, how wide is a chalk mark?


Before we got sidetracked, we had almost finished the assembly stage on the engine. The distributor was installed temporally, only as a reference to run the spark plug wires and to complete the installation and adjustment of the spark adjustment all the way from the steering column to the distributor. In preparation for starting the engine we must prime the oil system. Now remove the distributor.



This is the view of the top of the drive to the oil pump. We need to fabricate a device to fit in the slot on the oil pump so we can artificially pump oil.



One solution is to take a short piece of steel gas line. Flatten the end with a hammer so it will fit in the slot on the oil pump. With a regular drill, and in a clockwise direction, we can operate the oil pump. With my assistant watching the dash oil pressure gage, and operating the hand drill at full speed, I could generate 27 pounds of indicated pressure. Knowing that all 4 oil troughs are empty and that although I am reusing the original oil filter, it had been drained, the pumping was to continue until these items were full. I ran the pump for several minutes to accomplish this mission. Key locations now had oil for operation, however this procedure does NOT provide for any oil in either the main bearing reservoirs or the cam bearing reservoirs. Neither does it place any oil up front on the timing gears.

Install the bearing washer on the oil pump shaft.



Install the distributor for preliminary attempts to start the engine. (We will skip this procedure for the time being as it will be a class by itself).



You are looking at the flexible heat pipe from the stove to the carburetor. If you look just below the cotter key you can see the opening in the flywheel housing used to view the mark on the flywheel.



With the air cleaner installed (yes, I know it is missing the decal which will be applied later) it is virtually impossible to see into the hole and view the timing mark.

EDITORIAL : As far as I can tell, there is only one vendor of exhaust systems for the Chevrolet 4-cylinders. NONE of them fit as was designed. Not only do they not fit, the workmanship is totally unacceptable. This subject has been broached with the vendor with no noticeable improvement in either quality or fit. When I restored my 1925 Roadster I was so frustrated I decided to build the entire system myself. See G&D for October 1983 for my article on the construction of this system.



This is the driver’s side of the engine and shows the connection of the other end of the heat tube attached to the intake of the carburetor. Don’t think this heat tube is not important. Remove, or let the tube become dislodged, and try to operate your car. Yes, it can be done, but not as smoothly as when the carburetor is getting a good shot of preheated air.

Next class will be the positioning of the distributor, timing and initial attempt to start the engine.

Mr Ray: I noticed that on the bottom of the vaccum tank you installed a petcock, inline to carb ? Was that for safety reason's ?

Hi n j,

The shut-off Cock is part number 114644. It is necessary to shut off the flow of fuel from the vacuum tank to the carburetor if this line must be disconnected in order to work on the carburetor. Without the shut-off, each time the line is disconnected you would drain all the fuel in both tanks inside the vacuum tank. If the carburetor were subsequently removed you would loose that fuel also. On a restart it would place a huge drain on the battery to turn the engine over enough to obtain sufficient fuel for starting.

Ray
2 points
1. I used to manufacture exhaust systems for all model 4 cyl. Chevs, they were a bit rough and ready but did the job. I sold about 400 over 10 years. These are now being manufactured by another bloke in the VVCAA (aust. vintage chev club)and his are A1, even better than they were new. (I have n.o.s systems for 27 and 28 models for comparison) However the exhausts in Australia are somewhat different, because of the right hand drive interference. My 28 2 door sedan that I imported from St. Paul Minneapolis has an exact (as close as I can get it) copy of the US 28 system. If there was enough interest I'm sure he'd be willing to make them for export to the US. The purchase price would be probably be a fraction over $100 US, however you would need to add shipping to the price.
For models other than 28 he would need US paterns.
Let me know if you want me to ask him. I had one enquiry before, but tooling for one system wasn't economical
I could email photos of a new system off the car, if that would help.

Point 2. I noticed in one of your photos that the fuel line from the vacuum tank sagged below the point where it inlets into the carburettor, it should gradually run downhill all the way, and (possibly) have a vibration loop in it. All the Chev 4's out here run the vibration loop in both the vacuum inlet and the fuel outlet.
Chris

Ray, I noticed the cotter pin secureing the flex intake tube in the air cleaner, is that a mod you put on, or what was original? My 28 has a set screw that threads in the carb inlet and interfers with the flex tube which also appears in your photo, I haven't noticed the air cleaner end,it was already there when I purchased the car, is this a mod, or original? Do you have a early photo of the configuration of the fuel lines (tank to carb) and (supply line to vacuum input)?

Mack,
The cotter pin is original on the stove end for the later 4 bangers as is the set screw in the inlet of the carb. Earlier carbs used the long cotter pin. Both my '19 and '20 use the cotter pin on the carburetor end.

Chevguroo ,

Too bad you are not still making exhaust systems and exporting them to the US. In my opinion all the systems from 1925-28 are incorrect on numerous points and craftsmanship is nonexistent. If you have a picture of a correct 1928 system, and can send it to me, I will post it for and example.

Your second point about the fuel lines.



This picture was posted to the forum in a different thread. With the picture, which is taken from my Dealer's Album , (and is of a closed car), and data from the Parts Price List, April 1, 1928, for the Series AB-1928, this discussion can be concluded. Part number 328980, Gas Line passenger cars (125 ½”), part number 352020 Vacuum tank suction line (from top of tank to intake manifold 13 ¾”), and finally, Part number 345157 Vacuum tank to carburetor tube 15 11/16”). These measurements allow the configuration in the picture and no other routing is available. Also, in answer to a previous question. In addition to a Shut-Off Cock at the bottom of the vacuum tank there is an additional Shut-Off Cock Part number 120900 located at the gas tank.

MrMack ,

The connections at each end of the heat tube are the approved methods. As to the picture, see above. If you are in reference to how my car was when received, you don’t want to know. When the class is over I will have a few comments about the overall vehicle.

ChevyChip ,

You are correct on all points.

No Ray, I wasn't reference your car when you received it, just that I purchased mine , and it was the first 4 cylinder I ever paid much attention to. Thanks for the pictures and info on the fuel lines, I didn't remember seeing it before. My car does have a glass settleing bowl AC fuel filter on the supply line before the vacuum tank and a small 5/16" needle type shutoff valve just below the vacuum tank on the line to the carb, I will re-arrange the lines for a more suitable configuration, and also leave the filter in place. The line from the tank has been spliced with a compression union and it is 5/16 copper tubing, is that the original size?

MrMack ,

You are correct in that the fuel line from the tank to the top of the vacuum tank is 5/16. As to the material? Won’t go there.

How come no one ask me what oil I used in the engine or how much? So before you do, here is the answer. I use multi-viscosity 10W-30 oil, and the basic fill for the 4-cylinder engine is 4 quarts. The oil filter was new, but has been on the engine while operating. Most of the oil was drained out during the disassembly, so ½ additional quarts were added for a total of 4 ½ quarts.

Attention! All students gather around as we have a mystery to solve. The engine has already been operated; in fact the car has been driven on short test drives. However, in our sequence of operations in this class the installation of the distributor and timing the engine would have been the next step. When I went to take the pictures of the distributor I realized that the distributor had been installed incorrectly.



This is a picture as installed. Note that the clips for the distributor cap are 90 degrees from the line of the engine. This puts the back clip between number 2 and 3 cylinder and as a result it is extremely difficult to get to. Obviously this is not the correct way to install the distributor. I decided it would only take a few minutes to correct this error and I could then take my pictures. To make a long story short there was no way I could install the distributor correctly. I checked the model number 635B and that is correct. I dug out some more distributors and found another identical, however another one was completely different, and all had the same model number 635B.

(NOTE: The decal on the air cleaner is incorrect. I will discuss the decal for the air cleaner and oil filter in a later class).



Observe these three distributors closely. Look where the data plate is located, check the grease fitting versus the ridge on the base, and check the location of the stud where the wire from the coil attaches. The two on the left are the same, however the one on the right is different. After much research it was discovered the one on the right is the only distributor that could be mounted as required. So, stop everything and let’s rebuild a correct distributor.



On all motors after number 3409976, except motors 3410801 to 3415520, and on approximately June 1927, a new semi-automatic distributor was introduced. This distributor was the Model 635B. With the point plate removed from the distributor you can observe the two spring loaded counterweights. When the speed of the engine exceeds 1000 RPM, or approximately 22 MPH, these counter weights move and can advance the timing as much as 20 additional degrees at 2400 RPM. This gives us a total of 45 degrees before top dead center.



When working on a distributor, or changing the points, inspect this special piece of insulation that is located on the contact post. It is a critical part of the operation of the distributor.




Here you see the points installed along with the rotor. At the lower right you can see how the special piece of insulation protects the spring on the points and prevents it from touching the distributor body, thereby, shorting out the points.



Distributor installed and timed. Now the clips for the cap are parallel to the engine and can easily be accessed for checking the points or making adjustments.

Stay with us class. Eventually we will cover the installation of the distributor, adjustment of the spark control, and timing.

HOMEWORK: What is the point setting (contact opening) on the AA & AB?

Page 185 of the repair manual states 0.020" to 0.025". It does not indicate a different value for AA series but I don't have the repair manual for 1927 to cross-check.

Anybody care to guess what happens if you install the spring-loaded counter weights incorrectly? I'm not afraid to admit I did this once. :rolleyes:

-R

Hello,
I agree with chevguru(Hi Chris !)about the exhaust systems being made by his friend.I asked him to make one for my '28 Truck,and even though he said he'd never had a request for a truck system,he said he would have a go at it.
From the 4 Cyl Master Parts Book,we deduced that the "AB","LO" and "LP" were all the same.I picked up the exhaust system as I needed it desperately to go on our clubs May Tour to Albury,in May 2002,and it fitted up perfectly.It even sounds better,just like a Chev 4 should.
So I can highly recommend the quality of these exhaust systems.As chevguru says,the maker would need sample systems for your left hand drive cars,as ours are different down under.

Ray
I have just had 10 days off and as for some reason I can't access this column from my home computer, I had to wait till I got back to work.
Had the 28 out on 3 occassions while I was off, good stuff, should do it more often.

Re the fuel line vibraration loops, I was informed by an old codger that they were put in as our real crappy roads, which most were not sealed in those days, caused these lines to vibrate so much that they broke. So it could be an Aussie thing. I'll stick to them as we use our Chevs still on these off the beaten track dirt roads quite often, and I had a vacuum wiper line break off my 34 at the manifold and burnt out 3 exhaust valves. I now also have a tap in the manifold to turn it off in case it happens again.

Re the exhaust systems, I can give you a photo of my home made 28 system, and will ask the bloke who is manufacturing them to see if he can give me some photos of his reproduction systems. I believe that the 28 system would be the only one different for the left hand drive configuration. I'll have to email the pictures to you for you to post
Chris

Ray
I spoke to Gary Graham, the bloke making the Chev 4 exhaust systems. He will gladly ship to US, is going to give me a number of photos of a 27 system, which we believe is the same as US 27's, and is endevouring to obtain shipping prices to US.

I tried to email you offline via the mail option at the bottom of the post, and it wouldn't let me. I will need to able to do this to send you the photos for posting.

Also I will need the actual lenght of a 28 hot box, as I made my LHD 28 system from the diagram in the Service News. I know everything is perfect, because it fits nicely, but had to guess the lenght of the hot box.

I will give Gary a LHD manifold and he will set it up on a 28 engine in a rolling chasis to make sure it fits perfectly before reproducing a LHD version They can be supplied with or without the optional tailpipe

He makes all Chev systems from 1916 to 1928

Hope all this helps
Chris

Hello students! Your last homework was to give the point setting and a reference. RustyFender gave a value of .020 to .025 inches. His reference is above. This homework was assigned for a purpose. The Repair Manual on page 185 gives the above value; page 227 gives .018 to .024, and the OM gives the value as .018 to .025. You would think they would have a ”˜company’ value and be consistent.

EXHAUST SYSTEM:

You can follow the discussion by WIZARDSMITH278 and chevyguroo above. I hope one of them sends me a picture of a correct 1928 system and if so I will post it. I measure the hot box at 6 ¼ X 3 in diameter. This is from a repo system and is subjective. If the price is completive I feel there is a market for correct exhaust systems for at least the 1925-28 models.

RIMS:

While the engine work has been progressing, other adventures are also taking place. All 5 rims on the car were the wrong size. (They were 2 ½ inches as measured across the inside of the rim. This made them Capital AA 1927 rims). A set of 5 correct rims of the proper size has been obtained, sand blasted and just returned from the cadmium platting shop.



This measurement is to be 3 inches for the 1928. The diameter is 22 ¼ from the extreme outer edges. The tire size is 30 X 4.50 straight side balloon. Modern size for the 1928 is 4.40/4.50X21.



Isn’t it neat to have something just like brand new? You can even read the JAXON imprinting on the rim.



And my heart really beats fast when I can find the almighty BOWTIE imprinted on the part. It just doesn’t get any better.

TIMING:

Let’s get started on the timing of this fully assembled engine. The basic instructions for the installation of the distributor and timing are contained in Chevrolet Service News July 1927 on page 27. However, you need a good understanding of the operation of the engine to follow those instructions.

If you remember when we were assembling the engine we left the crank at the position where the 25-degree mark was showing in the timing window. The CSN does not point this out, but the 25-degree mark can appear twice in a single rotation of the cam. And, we MUST have the correct one. The side covers are on the engine so we can’t observe the lifters, but we can remove the valve cover and observe the rocker arms. To check for the correct rotation of the 25 degree mark observe the location of the rocker arms for number 4 cylinder. Why number 4, because the grind on the 1928 cam is such that it is very difficult to determine if both valves are closed on number 1. If we look at number 4 one rocker arm is in a pronounced different position than the other rocker arm. This indicates that number 4 is NOT on the firing position, but number 1 then is. Check the arms on number 1 and they should be at the same elevation. We have now insured that the 25-degree mark and the firing of number 1 are coordinated.



Install the distributor with the rotor exactly 90 degrees from the line of the engine. It will be necessary to use a screwdriver or similar tool to move the oil pump drive shaft to align with the pin in the drive gear of the distributor. You will also discover that as you start to drop the distributor down it will rotate. You must move the rotor in the correct direction that insures the rotor be at the correct place when seated. Insure the clamp ring is loose on the distributor. With the retaining washer, spring and bolt in position tighten the bolt. Inside the car move the timing lever to the maximum ADVANCED position. Rotate the distributor counter clockwise until the points are just ready to open. Tighten the clamp bolt. Install the distributor cap and insert the plug wires in the correct holes. The number one plug wire will go in the nearest hole to you and on the right side. Number 2 is in the left hole, number 4 is in the upper left hole and number 3 is in the upper right hole. The rotation of the rotor is clockwise and the firing order is: 1-2-4-3.

You are now ready to start the car. First move the spark control to the RETARD position on the steering wheel. Turn on the ignition and start the engine. CAUTIION , do not race the engine nor allow it to idle for the first few minutes of operation. Remember when we primed the oil system we were only able to fill the 4 troughs. There is NO oil in any of the reservoirs. Therefore, we must run the engine at a fairly fast pace to SPLASH oil up into the cam and main bearing reservoirs. Observe the oil gage to insure we have oil pressure. If there is no indicated pressure, shut off the engine and find the cause.

After the engine has achieved operating temperature it is time to complete the timing procedure. Use a strobe type timing light and if it is 12-volt operation only it will be necessary to use an auxiliary 12-volt battery to power the light. Attach the pickup unit to number 1 plug, and move the spark control to ADVANCED position on the steering wheel. With the engine operating at idle, direct the light through the observation hole in the flywheel housing and by moving the distributor align the pointer on the 25-degree mark on the flywheel. When this is achieved tighten the clamp bolt on the distributor.

You are now ready for a test drive.

If you remember, when we adjusted the valves we set all of them at .007. Leave that adjustment until we have a few hours on the engine and then we will complete the required procedures prior to buttoning up the engine.

Class dismissed to go for a test drive

.

Ray, how do you determine which side of the rim goes to the outside of the car? By the valve stem hole or the small welded knob on the rim edge? Or.........?

Hi MrMack,

The rim can be mounted in one position only.
The split in the rim is at 3:00 o'clock and must be located at a rim bolt. With the tube stem through the hole there is no other way.

That is the way it looks to me, but I have seen a fellow (on a tour) that tried to mount the rim on the disk wheel back side out and it was a bugger to get back off and get turned around.

I was mainly asking about mounting the tire on the rim correctly (for those with white walls with a preferred side out) My tires are solid black so it don't make that much difference, I try to put the red dot opposite the valve stem on the outside of the wheel.

Mention wasn't made about breaking in the cam unless I missed it. On much newer cars, I've always followed the practice to run an engine at 2000 RPM's for 20 minutes to break in the cam properly. Doesn't the same practice apply to older motors??

-Bob

Ray
Going back to the photo of your rim, the one with the bow tie that gets your heart going.
Below and slightly to the right is a prominent indentation (from the inside to the outside), there are four of these and are basically there to hold the steel fellow of the wheel in place.
They tend to wobble a bit without this.

Most of the rims in Australia don't have this indentation (probably aftermarket, as our rims suffered in their heyday on our rough roads)

My heart stops when I see one with the indents in it and as our rims appear to be locally made, my heart would miss more than one beat if I came accross one with a bow tie in it

I was presently surprised to see the Jaxon mark on my US import 28, as we didn't even get that.

Also I often wonder when following a Chev 4 (or 29) when I see a rim that appears buckled (and we have heaps of them on cars here) is one without the indent, and just wobbles a bit.
Chris

Ray,
I bought new tires for a recently purchased '28 with a 30 year old amateur restoration. Did not understand the meaning of amateur until I got this car. It has three '28 wheels and one '27 or earlier steel disc wheel. Will not go into the long sad story but, had to re-mount the tires onto the rims on the car during the recent SST. Made a good tire changing seminar for several 4 banger owners.

Also discovered a while back that the rims for '28 were not cadmium plated but painted black. Same for '29-31 disc wheels. Was suprised to find this as I have always thought they were plated. Even the '31 Fire Truck rims are wrong. Looks like '27 was the end of the cad. plated rims, clamps, nuts.

ChevyChip-

Please elaborate on the "black painted vs cadmium plated split rims" statement for 1928. Are you talking passenger car, truck, or both?