VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Radios, Tools, Accessories Starting Cranks

How would the average judge know which is correct?Here we have some of the most knowledgeable VCCA people and there are two opinions. Thats why judging isn't a perfect science.

You are correct Chevy Nut, and that's why documentation is so important. A lot of judges go by comparison judging or by their opinions instead of by documentation. We may not agree with certain aspects of the documentation, just like on the starting crank issue, but it's there in black and white and it was put there by Chevrolet Motor Division. That is the Bible to go by. Just like the cowl tag information......that is documentation about the car from the factory, but yet it gets totally ignored at most VCCA judged meets. Bottom line......we have to use the available documentation (facts) for judging purposes and leave the opinions out of it. That way the judging will be more fair to all.

CHEVGENE I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. IF I WAS TO JUDGE A CAR I WAS NOT TO FAMALIAR WITH, AND THE TOOLS WERE IN THE TRUNK AND I LOOKED AT THEM.HOW WOULD I OR SOMEONE ELSE JUDGING CARS KNOW IT THEY WERE RIGHT????? ENEN IF I WENT THROUGH THE JUDGING SCHOOL I WOULD NOT KNOW. JUST BECAUSE THE TOOLS ARE THERE, DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE RIGHT. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Donald: That's why the VCCA has judging handbooks for each individual year. These manuals are supposed to list what's correct for each year, including the tools, and they are to be used by the judges. Again....documentation, no guessing or opinions.

JUNKYARD DOG, I SEEN NO MANUALS AT THE JUDGING. WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE DONE AND WHAT IS DONE IS A DIFFERENT STORY. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Now you've got the picture! I believe that there are supposed to be judging manuals in use now. I had to make one for 1930 and 1932 and it took me weeks to do. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

YES YES, AND YOU PUT WHAT DOWN FOR THE 32 STARTING CRANK????????

Get your car judged again and see!

Well, misters smarty pants, I have one of the new $5 judgeing manuals and it don't say whether the 32 or any other cranking tool had either a sleeve or a socket on the end, but , It is the owners responsibility to provide any documentation for an item that is controversal on your car!

Hey,
Now simmer down guys. Put down the mate'rs. Got red blotches all over me.

I wonder if Ramondo has the lug nut wrench in his tool kit? The wrench should be there if the starting crank does not have a socket end. Look in your G&D back issues for a photo of what could be one. How else would you get the flat tire changed with the jack that will not fit under the axle? Gene, I don't think it would be easier to get the lug nuts off with the speeder type wrench than the end socket of a starting crank.

Yes, the correct jack will not fit under the axle of a 1930-33 when the tire is flat. They didn't fix that until later in 1933. Anyone what to go there?

Back to the starting cranks. Remember that I am of the opinion that dealers put the tool kits into the cars. I don't have specific documentation for this yet other than the film strips. I put a picture of a wire wheel lug nut wrench in the Jan. '02 G&D in case you missed it.

Like Donald I had thought for years that the crank with the socket end was correct for the '32s and likely the '31s also. Until I did some research that is. When I finally looked close enough at the "Check and Double Check" film strip, recognized what must have been part of the wrench, found the listing in many parts books and finally got the '45 edition of the 29-42 parts book that clearly showed "plain end", that I realized that I was likely wrong. Now I think that I was mistaken.

Since none of us has followed the exact history of any of these old Chevrolets and if we had our memories have faided over the years, we can not be sure if the starting cranks we find in the cars were originally put there or traded out later. I would rather try to remove the lug nuts with the crank end socket than the speed wrench type. I likely would have opted to trade if given the chance.

Ok, got my fruit basket refilled, mate'ers, rotten mellons, squash. Bob & Weave or Duck! or be covered with multicolored blotches.

If this one strays off the subject the MODERATOR has instructed me to put a cap on it.

Cool! Hum..........who is the Moderator anyway??? :confused: :confused:

Chipper Dipper: I used to think the same as you about the starting crank with the socket end since there are so many 1931's and 1932's out there with that type of starting crank as part of their tool kit. However, I have found that most of the owners of these cars did add the starting cranks to their tool kits later. There are a couple of all original '32's that I have seen that did have the starting crank with the socket end. But.......while I haven't done the exhaustive research on this issue that you have, I did do a little checking into the subject and I found that the original Chevrolet literature does document that the starting cranks for the 1931 and 1932, and 1933 Eagle domestic models did have the plain end. So.......until some other original literature does show up to contradict that fact, we will have to go with what has been documented so far.

I'll pull it back in, Ray.

I had mentioned on a previous posting I seem to have been blessed with both kinds of cranks inside my '32 trunk. I also have a lug wrench with a socket on one end and a point on the other (presumably to pry off hubcaps). If I momentarily skirt the controversy, is this third wrench a proper tool for the year, or likely an aftermarket acquisition?

YIPES, I CAN NOT GO WHERE YOW GUYS COME UP WITH THE STARTING CRANK HAVING NO SOCKET ON ONE END. I WOULD NOT TAKE THE BOOKS PRINTED IN 1945 OR THE PARTS BOOKS 29 TO 42 AS BEING CORRECT OR BEING PROOF. THE PEOPLE WHO OWN ORIGINAL 32 CHEVYS AND HAVE THE STARTING CRANKS WITH A SOCKET IN ONE END, DIDNT JUST GO OUT AND BUY A STARTING CRANK WITH NO SOCKET. NO, BECAUSE THE CRANKS THEY HAVE WITH THE SOCKET IN ONE END, IS WHAT CAME WITH THE CAR. AS OF THIS TIME THERE IS STILL NOT A 100 PROOF THAT THERE WAS A STARTING CRANK WITH NO SOCKET ON ONE END IN 1932 :) :)

Donald....... Yes, a lot of '32 Chevys have the starting crank with the socket ends and that's true. I've seen many myself. BUT, for restoration purposes, and especially for judging purposes, you can only go by actual, documented facts as a tool for restoration and/or judging. Opinions, rumors and guess work doesn't count. Opinions and rumors are great to talk about, but you cannot use that for an accurate and authentic restoration of a car, or for judging. Even though the starting crank with the socket end may possibly be correct, without documentation you cannot prove that it is correct unfortunately, no matter how many cars you find with them 70 years down the road. And to say the parts books are incorrect is guess work (because no one knows) and it is only conjecture. :( :( :(

HEY CHIPPER DIPPER, WHAT MONTH AND YEAR DID YOU DO THE ARTICLE ON THE LUG NUT WRENCH IN THE G AND D. THANKS :) :) :) :)

Donald,
This thread could go on forever, we haven't heard from Congress, or Fox news, or Parliment, or the Dali Lamma, or Charlton Heston or Whoopy Goldberg, and there is a big old Chinese Army that might want to say something about YOUR DANGED OLD 33 CRANK WITH THE SOCKET END that is poseing as a 1932 Chevrolet Cranking tool w/ socket end...................
SO What's next?.........

Did you have to ask him that???? Gee!!!!!!!!!

Wadda mean..........why not? Haven't you noticed what we have all been through the past couple of days because someone else asked old Donald a question?? Holy Cow!!!!!!!

Oh! That, Well slap my face and call me forgiven!