VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION VCCA Judging Questions Getting More People To Judge

I just returned from the Northwest meet In Kelso Washington and the meet was great. Forty cars were on the judging field and everything went perfect. The one thing that seems to be a problem at sanctioned meets Is getting enough people to be a judge. I will be going to Coeur d"Alene Idaho In a few days to the Bow Tie Chevys International Convention. I will have my 57 chevy judged In the stock class. They state that If you have your car judged In any class, That you will also be a judge or pay 25 dollars toward the meet. I think this Is a great way to get alot more people to participate In the judging of the cars. At the meet there will be about 350 chevys from 1955 thru 1964. Alot of them will be judged. The other Chevy club that I belong to, Fifteen people opted to be a judge, Instead of paying the 25 dollar fee. They say, What the heck, Why not help out. Paying the 25 dollars Is not a big deal to most people, But It makes one get more Involved In the judging. If to many people become judges, Then some people would be on the sidelines learning a few things, But be participating. I think this process should be looked Into In the VCCA judging process. It may work out and alot more people would get Involved. Just a thought. Thanks

Some of the clubs have a fee to have your car judges over and above the registration fee. Could it be that if you judge the fee is waved? This extra fee when collected could go towards the awards.

See you down the Back Roads.

Don,
Please remember, Bow-Tie/LateGreat Chevy's is not a club. The appear to be so, but they are a business, just ask them, they make no bones about it. They will handle things different than us, especially when it comes to money
John

Don't we want people with knowledge about Chevy cars as judges; not people who may or may not know anything at all about what or how to judge?

The one thing that I see that is wrong with our judging is how can you judge an open car against a closed car? In my estimation that is like compairing an apple with an orange. And no matter how knolegeable a judge is in doing his job there is always going to be something different in the cars, begining of a model year and end of model year or where it was built. Unless the tech. advisers assist the judges and the people who are putting the judgeing forms together with this information the people on the judging field will not be able to do a good job and a fair to the owner of the vehical. two examples are my 1930 Club sedan Oakland built early production my 1930 Special sedan Ohio built very late different style hood latches. My 1931 roadster is early the hood is different than the 1931 2 door that I am working on I had a hard enough time figureing these things out myself let a lone a person on the judgeing field. I do think tha there is a lot of things that need to be answered on the early cars what about a spare tire? if you see some cars they have no spare and even if they were furnished by the dealer would they match what the factory put on? And what about trucks up until recent years they came with no spare just a rim, I recieved my new 1965 Chevelle with 735x14 on the ground but the spare was a 650x14 the dealer forgot to switch all five tires and wheels, we still have a lot to learn one other thing some of us just learned that there was a difference between the 1930,1931 19 inch wire wheels is this on the judgeing form? And do not get me wrong my hat does go off to the people who are doing the form as I was on the National board and went through some of the stressfull times with the form and the people who are working on it then and still are but I do think as I said before if the tech. advisers would help with a general overview of there year this would be a grate help to all.

Larry, Open car / closed car should make no difference. The cars are to be judged to the form and not to each other. One car one form. Do the car, turn form in and do the next car.

See you down the Back Roads.

Ditto on John 348's post.

LGC has a TON to be desired with their judging process.

Case in point, they sell repro parts. You get two identical cars on the judging field, one being a pure NOS restoration, the other being repop parts special. Its very possible for the repop car to outscore the NOS car!!

One of the main reasons for having a car judged is to find out information about what is right and wrong with your restoration. So judges have to be very knowledgeable about the cars they judge, without knowledgeable judges you wouldn't learn anything to help you with making your car better.

The only problem is that often the judges are in a class of cars that they are not familar with.Now if the VCCA would have some printed guidelines for the judges to use it would be much more meaningful........OH...........I thing I have mentioned that before.

I commend Steve and the Judging committee for their efforts to promote the judging process and also for the great job they do in presenting the Judging schools. I attended the session for The Lone Star Region and hope to get to participate in a VCCA show with judgeing, at least watch and learn. There has not been one that I have been able to attend for one reason or other.

I hope that once I get to attend a VCCA show that it will be more fun than what I have heard and seen here on the Chatter, some of the comments and the examples of bad happenings make me wonder if I really want to have one of my cars judged, after driving it in a tour and to the show (it may get laughed off the field)

I can agree with the one form, and each car should be judged as just that. But sometimes I see things that are not what they should be as in all shows and I just do not understand.I have been in the hobby sinse 1966 and the guality of restorations have far exceeded what the factory produced, as I mentioned if the tech. advisers would do an overview of some of the things that are standard mistakes in judging I think that it would get more pepole to get involved. I have judged at local shows, and at national shows and it does present a challenge if you do not know the year. And as I said before the people that are doing the work on the judging commetee are doing a grate job, and my hat does go off to them.

No one asked for my two cents so I'll toss it in anyway.

Judging will most likely never be perfect. Steve Scott can testify to my fellings about that point with things that have happened to my car. But what I can say is, I don't care what form, system, club (or business) is the sponsor, the good cars most likely come to the top. I see it time and again.

There is a "booklet" produced by VCCA containing information on a variety of items for each year, at least I think there is a book covering each year. For my 32 it's pretty accurate....not perfect. You might see about getting one for your car. I think they are a great beginning for putting together a car wheather it is judged or not.

In the judging process, each item is considered for authenticity, installation, cleanliness, etc. These divisions of considerations varies from club to club (or business).

The process will never be perfect but will at the very least help to establish reasonably "correct" guidelines for people who are interested in that type of thing.

I just back from the National Nova Meet in Atlanta. They have a nightmare judging those cars. I was able to determine some problems with their scoring and I am not a judge in their club. The bottom line, in their "stock" class, they are helping people interested in correct details to get closer to that end result.

After what I went through going to the AACA AGNM in Buffalo, I'm happy to be alive and have 32 Chevy. The hobby is as much about people as it is about cars. You might give people a thought in this hobby as well as the cars.

Judging is only a help to get to an end. It's not the end in itself. When all is said and done on this issue, more will be said then done. Nuff said....

One problem with VCCA Judging that could be corrected very easy for Chief Judges stop making little exceptions for the meet they are Chief Judge. A case in point. I know someone that had a non authentic exhaust extension on his car at a previous meet. He was deducted points for authenticy. He then spent the big bucks to get the correct extension. This year the Chief Judge said the extensions are there to protect the bumper and it doesn't matter what kind they are. I have been told by someone that went to the judging school that next year they are going to place a yard stick on the ground and against the bumper. If the extension goes beyond the bumper it will be deductions. How is one to know what will be expected from year to year or meet to meet. I did not have a car judged this year at the Central Meet and had a very good time without the agrivation.

See you down the back roads.

I am sorry to hear that back roads! If a person displays an accessory it should be the correct accessory for that year of model. Those instructions were not correct. It is important to be more familiar with the manual. It has a clip on just this item that you mentioned.

Keep in mind that we have a whole bunch of people who have had their vehicles judged successfully and correctly. I am fortunate enough to get to see the results of judging across the country and we have improved a great deal. We have had five meets completed so far and the forms have been returned and they are coming back in with abbreviations and comments that are helpful for the owner. Still, we get some of the reports back where someone has their own agenda and decides not to follow what is in the manual. We still have a long way to go. As Gene mentioned, the tech manual or judging manual for each class of car is the next step. That is a huge undertaking that will need the help of many members of this club. I think we can do it.

Steve ,I will be glad to help. (if I am still around)

Steve, Count me in on the '31 later this fall after I get back off the back roads.

How can I get the "booklet" that was mentioned by Roadster32 for my '32 and a few other years?

Thanks,
Gator

What most might not know is there were 8 observers (these were in addition to the required number of judges) who volunteered at the recent Central Meet. So there are meets with plenty of judging volunteers. We had one assigned to our team. He was very interested in the process and learned a lot about judging. The judges took some time to explain to him some of the deductions and how they determined the number of points to deduct.

There were several Canadian produced Chevrolets at the meet. If you think there are differences between a Roadster and Sedan then look at a 1931 US vs Canadian produced Chevy. This one had US fenders but the Canadian mounting. Fortunately two of us on the team (one a Canadian) knew about the differences. Those differences are not in the Judging Guidelines for 1931 that I wrote ten years ago. And yes there are some mistakes in them that need to be updated. All are welcome to contribute. Documentation is critical.

Another important point is that very few vehicles actually have another vehicle in their class with the same status (Junior, Senior) where small point differences might effect the first, second third placing. Preservation is a different situation. The dual award policy is an attempt to not penalize the best vehicles if the judging is not perfect. And we all know it never will be perfect.

I would like to put together a manditory school for anyone that will have their Chevrolet judged. Though about it on the drive home from the Central Meet. It would review the judging process from the eyes of a judge. One idea is to show a photo of one side of the engine compartment of a vehicle for two-three minutes. Ask each participant to list each item that should have a point deduction and the amount. Then show the same photo with the items with arrows pointing to them with the point deductions indicated. Then photos of the interior, exterior, chassis with the same process. Another set of photos from a second vehicle (different decade).

Then discuss the psycology of judging, (observation and interpretation). The fact that what is found on the first vehicle judged will affect what is found on the next. Our minds tend to focus in tracks (same thoughts or observations vs. jumping around to others).

I think that the judging process will be much better understood and accepted if those affected understand why mistakes are made and defects overlooked even if it should have been "obvious to anyone".

If you critically analyse the judging process we use, it is suprising that we do as well as we do.

Anyone want to help? Contact Steve Scott!

Some good ideas, Chip.

I think as long as the VCCA is willing to look at itself and 'fix' where there is a need (or perceived need) to fix and is honest and sincere and above board; all of the 'problems' will be dealt with. Plus, I think the VCCA is doing and continues to try to do a very good job in a very difficult area...judging...

After all we get very attached to our vehicles, almost like they are a part of the family, so if someone were to be critical of a family member (read vehicle) who wouldn't get upset? Noone messes with my...

PS. Do you know anything about the booklet (above)?

I have a down loaded a copy for 32

Thanks Roadster32, I have sent you a private message...thanks again...Gator.