Just waiting on my rebuilt carb to arrive to try and start the 1935 207 engine in my 1934 truck and I've been getting everything in place to give myself the best opportunity of starting my beast, but I have come to a road block. I replaced battery cables, 6V coil, wires, condenser, cap, rotor, points and used new wiring for the new ignition switch. Bottom line is, I am getting 6 volts all the way to the distributor, point gap has been set, but I am not getting any spark to the plugs. I used an inline spark light as well as a timing gun and neither registered. I checked the new coil and my primary reading is around 1.9 and my secondary reading is around 8,200. (checked the old ac delco coil that was in it for the heck of it and it wasn't much different). I am sitting here now thinking that I should've checked the ohms on the coil wire to make certain it's good as well.
Is the spark light properly grounded when you are testing for spark?
Are the points shorted to ground? This means that the primary circuit never opens electrically to let the field in the coil collapse and make a spark in the secondary circuit.
Check the coil wire to the center of the distributor cap and spark plug wires for continuity or resistance. Note the position of the rotor and check continuity from the center post to the spark plug wire socket. If you have continuity in each segment of the circuit then you should have power to the spark plugs.
Is the spark light properly grounded when you are testing for spark?
Are the points shorted to ground? This means that the primary circuit never opens electrically to let the field in the coil collapse and make a spark in the secondary circuit.
The inline spark light is between the wire and the spark plug, so I should be focusing on the ground of the points? Sorry, I am not real good with electrical components, so I am not following.
Check the coil wire to the center of the distributor cap and spark plug wires for continuity or resistance. Note the position of the rotor and check continuity from the center post to the spark plug wire socket. If you have continuity in each segment of the circuit then you should have power to the spark plugs.
I will in fact check the coil wire and other wires for continuity. If I recall, I should get a reading of 4,000 ohms for every foot of wire, correct? I just got my 47 dodge 2 ton to run as it should after a very, very long period of time and all it was was a faulty coil wire from the manufacturer....they hadn't extended the interior wire to the metal fittings at both ends.
Could you please explain to me a little more on how to do this..."Note the position of the rotor and check continuity from the center post to the spark plug wire socket."
By "tickling" the points we mean to manually open the points by turning the distributor. That should make a spark. I have had a few cases where the moving arm on the points was not properly insulated. The voltage to that arm went directly to ground all the time so there was always 6 volts going through the coil. It never went to 0 to make the spark.
I know this sounds basic but you might want to make sure that the points are closing. If things slip around a little you could have set the gap when the arm was not on the peak of the cam lobe in the distributor. That means they might not close properly.
Also, try your old Delco coil. Many of us have learned the hard way that "new" does not equal "good".
Chipper's suggestion is to make sure that the tip of the rotor is contacting the underside of each post in the distributor. You can get things out of position enough that when the points open the rotor is between contacts. A simple way to check that is to use a Sharpie and make a mark on the side of the distributor when there is a post in the cap. Remove the cap and turn the engine over until the rotor is close to that mark while checking when the points open. The rotor should be aligned with your mark. You might need to re-position the distributor shaft and the cam gear to get things back into position. There are more than 6 positions that those gears mesh. That cap only has 6 posts.
By "tickling", I meant just turn on the juice with the points closed and stick a screwdriver down there and open and close the points to see if there is a spark. With the points open, short them to the shaft, with the screwdriver, and see if sparks fly. The center wire from the coil should be held close to something so the spark can jump. It's rare, but new condensers have been known to be bad. That would prevent getting a good spark.
I set the points a .018 at the distributor shaft's peak, so I think I'm good there. I turned the distributor with the cap off to make certain everything was at least moving. At any point(pun intended) should any part of the points touch the distributor shaft? How else would the points open if the lever/plastic piece never touch the shaft?
I do have all the old stuff, so I could go back to putting them on and working from there if everything else you mention fails.
Also, make sure that you didn't hook up the coil backwards.
I simply swapped out the wires from the old coil to the new one, but maybe that was already backwards so I will double check. I think the hot wire from my ignition went to the + on the coil and the - on the coil went to my distributor.
You are correct that the plastic rubbing block of your point arm should be in contact with the distributor cam. You have a gap so it seems you are good there. With points open, see if you get sparks when you short the point arm to the distributor shaft with a screwdriver. Or stick the screwdriver into the point gap and wiggle it around to look for sparks. Close the points and open them manually to see if you get a spark. If you get sparks with either of these, at the location, look to see if you are getting a spark from the coil wire. The wiring you describe is correct.
Sorry if I am a little confused by rustydawg’s post about setting the point gap.
The .018” gap is set when the plastic block on the lever arm is at the peak of one of the 6 lobes on the distributor cam. As the cam continues to rotate the rubbing block should come off of the cam and the lever arm should move to close the points. In most cases there will be a very small clearance between the rubbing block and the flat portion of the cam on the distributor shaft. As the shaft continues to rotate the rubbing block will contact the next lobe. That should move the arm to break the contacts.
You should be able to see the points open and close as you crank the engine.
As Mike noted there should be a slight spark between the points when they open.
If the points won't "tick" as Mike describe above... but you have juice to them...
You might try lightly polishing the points with a point file. I've had even new points that were finicky about making clean enough contact to make a spark.
The points are brand new, so they are clean. I am probably not explain myself very well. I turned the engine over until the rubbing block is at one of the peaks, then I set the .018" points gap. The points are closed/in contact while between lobes of the distributor shaft. I need to just see if I can manually get the points to create a blue spark at the points and if not, go from there. Could be as simple as a grounding issue, no?
Something just occurred to me. This distributor can be adjusted at the base with this "new" to me adjustment. Would this have anything to do on whether I am getting a spark right when the rotor contact touches the contact on the cap?
That minor adjustment is the octane selector. Typically it has full adjustment range of about 20 degrees.
The process I use is to set the octane selector at 0 or mid-range. Then I set the engine so the ball on the flywheel aligns with the pointer on the flywheel housing with both valves closed for cylinder #1. I then turn the distributor opposite the direction of rotor rotation until the points just open.
Now you can check if the rotor aligns with a post on the distributor cap.
It should be pretty easy to make the points spark. Obviously you need to remove the distributor cap to do this test. Make sure the points are closed which means the rubbing block is between the lobes. The use a small screwdriver or pick tool to pull on the arm that holds the moving contact. When the points open you should see and hear small spark.
If there is no spark either there is no power to the points or the circuit is grounded. There are insulating blocks on the terminal that connect the wire from the coil to the spring on the arm of the points. If these are not installed correctly or cracked the circuit will be grounded all the time.
One way to check this is to crank the engine so the points are open. Turn the ignition on and feel the coil. If it is getting hotter that circuit is grounded.
I have found the same as Tony a coating on new points. A crisp dollar bill or other non slick paper is often enough to remove the insulating coating. A quick test is to short across the points with screwdriver, coin, wire or other metal object. If you get a bigger spark from the coil then when the points are opened and closed the points need cleaning.
After cleaning the contacts, checking for resistance in the wires, voltage and everything mentioned including "tickling" the points which gave me a nice blue spark, I realized (almost don't want to say it) that I didn't gap the points properly. While turning over the engine with the cap off, my tiny light bulb in my brain went on and I realized my mistake. WE NOW HAVE SPARK!!! Sad to say that after gapping many points on several of my vehicles in my lifetime I could've missed this one.
Hopefully I will receive my carb in the coming weeks and along with fuel in the tank, we should hopefully have this engine running.
[quote=Rusty 37 Master]That minor adjustment is the octane selector. Typically it has full adjustment range of about 20 degrees.
The process I use is to set the octane selector at 0 or mid-range. Then I set the engine so the ball on the flywheel aligns with the pointer on the flywheel housing with both valves closed for cylinder #1. I then turn the distributor opposite the direction of rotor rotation until the points just open.
Hey Rusty, Now that I have spark, I would like to learn a little more about this "octane selector". I have left it at "0" for now and assume that I can start my engine with this setting. I am trying to understand the part about the "ball on the flywheel" and the "pointer on the flywheel housing". I know that I am able to see the flywheel thru a window in the bell/flywheel housing, so is this where I should be focusing? If the rotor is turning clockwise, then I should use the selector to turn the distributor counter clockwise until I see a slight gap, correct?
I will have to defer to a '35 207 expert. I have never worked on one of those engines. My comments were in reference to the 216 in my '37.
I did look at the online copy of the 1934 Shop Manual. Page 33 describes how to set the timing. On your engine I think the ball is set for 10 degrees BTDC.
Page 13 of the 1934 Owner's manual describes how to set the Octane Selector.
Your engine may or may not start unless you have the correct initial timing. You should see a pointer in the window in the bell housing. As you turn the engine over you should eventually see a ball on the flywheel. For static timing align the ball and pointer. Turn the engine only in the direction of proper rotation. If you go past the mark and turn the engine backwards to align the marks all the slack in the gears is the wrong way.
Set the octane selector at 0. Loosen the clamp screw so you can turn the distributor counterclockwise to open the points. with the ignition on you should hear the spark when the points open. Tighten the clamp screw.
I will have to defer to a '35 207 expert. I have never worked on one of those engines. My comments were in reference to the 216 in my '37.
I did look at the online copy of the 1934 Shop Manual. Page 33 describes how to set the timing. On your engine I think the ball is set for 10 degrees BTDC.
Page 13 of the 1934 Owner's manual describes how to set the Octane Selector.
Your engine may or may not start unless you have the correct initial timing. You should see a pointer in the window in the bell housing. As you turn the engine over you should eventually see a ball on the flywheel. For static timing align the ball and pointer. Turn the engine only in the direction of proper rotation. If you go past the mark and turn the engine backwards to align the marks all the slack in the gears is the wrong way.
Set the octane selector at 0. Loosen the clamp screw so you can turn the distributor counterclockwise to open the points. with the ignition on you should hear the spark when the points open. Tighten the clamp screw.
Can I line up pointer with ball, remove cap, loosen clamp screw, turn ignition on and turn the distributor clockwise until I can visually see the points open instead?
You need to turn the distributor counterclockwise. You want the correct direction of relative motion between the cam on the distributor and the rubbing block on the arm of the points.
Normally the points and the distributor are stationary. The cam is moving clockwise. When you set the initial timing the cam is stationary. The rubbing block needs to move in that same direction in relation to the cam.
If you have the cap off you should hear or see a spark at the points when they open. If you wait until you see the points open you will be close enough that the engine will run, just maybe not as good as it could.
You could but it’s not very exact. Water cooled engines are far more forgiving, but I always static timed until I burned up an air cooled engine I recently rebuilt because I was a little off. Get a timing light. They are cheap and I use it for all kinds of diagnostics. I use a small battery charger hooked to the timing light leads to give me the 12 volts it wants to check timing. The light doesn’t care that the only part attached to the old 6 volt system is the plug wire lead. I just sit that old batter charger on the running board and test away (and you can see the ball in the flywheel and your pointer perfectly - she will run smooth as silk).
You need to turn the distributor counterclockwise. You want the correct direction of relative motion between the cam on the distributor and the rubbing block on the arm of the points.
Normally the points and the distributor are stationary. The cam is moving clockwise. When you set the initial timing the cam is stationary. The rubbing block needs to move in that same direction in relation to the cam.
If you have the cap off you should hear or see a spark at the points when they open. If you wait until you see the points open you will be close enough that the engine will run, just maybe not as good as it could.
Geez sorry, I meant opposite of the rotor direction which would be counterclockwise.
You could but it’s not very exact. Water cooled engines are far more forgiving, but I always static timed until I burned up an air cooled engine I recently rebuilt because I was a little off. Get a timing light. They are cheap and I use it for all kinds of diagnostics. I use a small battery charger hooked to the timing light leads to give me the 12 volts it wants to check timing. The light doesn’t care that the only part attached to the old 6 volt system is the plug wire lead. I just sit that old batter charger on the running board and test away (and you can see the ball in the flywheel and your pointer perfectly - she will run smooth as silk).
I have a timing light already and I can just hook it up to my truck parked next to my 34, but what exactly will I be doing with it? Are you saying that opposed to pointing it at the crankshaft pulley to adjust timing I will be aiming it at the window in the bell housing to align the ball and pointer?
Remember that the engine is not able to be run right now. He does not have a carburetor.
Once you can run the engine then you can use the timing light. You are correct that you will aim it at the window and pointer. The light will flush every time that #1 cylinder fires. That flash “freezes” the motion of the flywheel. You should see the ball.
