I think I know that the transmission and bell housing are flat black but I'm wondering if the black parts that are on the engine and the fan are flat or satin black. I don't think they are gloss black.
Might make a difference depending on year but my guess is the engine bell is same as the engine and the tranny was not painted. Satin on the black engine parts. Hopefully this will attract some response and then Gene can correct or verify the answers.
Steve is correct. Gene has said the original black has some shine but is not a gloss. Trans is naked. Belhousing is painted assembled to engine so they would have oversprayed the clutch fork I suspect.
Just re-read the original question. There was some variance in the blacks. I have some NOS fans and they are close to flat. Gen, gen brackets, starter as as above. Air filter asm seemed most gloss of them all. Parts on the carb were also gloss. Of course each item came from different suppliers as well as different batches. I have tried to find a slight gloss but have focused more on the quality of the paint instead, as it's not much good to have a perfect match if it doesn't last.
Nice to hear you are at this point with the project!
Last edited by canadiantim; 02/24/2105:01 PM.
1938 Canadian Pontiac Business Coupe (aka a 1938 Chevy Coupe with Pontiac shaped front sheet metal - almost all Chevy!) 1975 4-speed L82 Vette
So as I take it, the bellhousing is the same color as the engine? I have recently been told that the air cleaner, the oil cap and the Town and county horns are painted gloss black is that right?
The water pump, manifolds and their attaching hardware,flywheel housinng.under pans valve cover acorn nuts were all attached when the engine was painted ENGINE COLOR.
Same for the balancer, water pump and fan belt adjusting brkt.
Here is a list of the items on the engine that you should paint black after having painted the assembled engine the dark grey paint that is sold by our usual suppliers such as Chevys of the Forties and the Filling Station: (The assembled engine means the block plus the manifolds, water pump, oil pan, valve cover, side cover, generator bracket bolted (and adjustment arm) and the side cushion and engine mount to the block and water outlet neck.)
a. Fan (only, not the housing or the hub(
b. Generator (I'm not sure about the end caps. I have seen them natural, grey and black. I would go with black to include the cover strap.)
c. Oil breather including the cap
d. Starter (I;m not sure about the end cap that can be seen after the unpainted gear end has been inserted in the bell housing. The bell housing end is not painted.)
e. Distributor (cap is bake-lite black already)
f. Carburetor is natural except the cover which is painted black
g. Gell housing is painted engine color but that is where the paint leaves off until the torque tube. Transmission is natural but metallic grey may help keep it from showing any rust. The engine will keep it from rusting by the flow of seeps, drips and blow back out the oil breather, etc. )
h. The carburater air cleaner is painted black with a decal attached. Both it and the cover seem to have a gloss finish. The copper filter should be natural.
I think the above is in line with all the above recommendations and advice. The only thing about painting the assembled engine is that the paint will cover the exposed edges of gaskets. I personally like those to be natural but one can't have everything when correctness is the desired result.
)Note to everyone: If I have inadvertently misled or made a mistake in the above then please correct me. I hope and trust that will be realized.)
Good luck with your quest to paint the engine and its components the right color.
Best,
Charlie
BTW: The above paint scheme is followed for about ten (10) years or more after 1938 and even before 1938.
BTW2: The vacuum advance is natural and in later years (1941-48) so was the reverse polarity switch/mechanism.
BTW3: Aft the transmission I think all the pieces associated with U-joint and torque tube are painted black except for the bell where it pivots. I could be wrong here.
Note to everyone: If I have inadvertently misled or made a mistake in the above then please correct me. I hope and trust that will be realized.
B. I don't have time this morning to look for the old thread, but I remember a discussion, I believe with our old Fleetliner friend Bruce about the strap on the generator being "blued" and not painted. Perhaps someone who knows for sure will let us know?
Wow Charlie I sure hope you are one of the judges when my car is judged! I have a few questions though. First is (g) Does the engine color on the bell housing taper off to the transmission or was the transmission installed after the engine and bell housing were painted? Next, was the engine painted with it fully assembled? If it was, like I can imagine, wouldn't the gaskets be painted? Thank you so much much
Jon, Thank you for the great information about CARbureTERs paint. But I think I will go with the way it come from the factory.
Gene, The acorn nuts were painted the engine color? That makes since if the engine was fully assembled when painted. That would make the gaskets painted also.
I haven't heard anything from Tiny yet on this subject. I would be interested on his input(:- !
The sheet metal voltage regulator and horn relay covers were gloss black as welll as themetering rod cover n a Carter
w-1 Carb. The various large ond small plugs on the cast iron W-1 body were NOT painted. The generator brush cover was not painted. The generator, strater, distributor. road draft tube and its oil filler cover were black If the oil filler cover is on the valve cover it is engine color. Fan is black. These parts are not high gloss black Air cleaner inclded.
Depending on year and if pot metal or cast iron the generator end frames were not painted.
Wow Charlie I sure hope you are one of the judges when my car is judged! I have a few questions though. First is (g) Does the engine color on the bell housing taper off to the transmission or was the transmission installed after the engine and bell housing were painted? Next, was the engine painted with it fully assembled? If it was, like I can imagine, wouldn't the gaskets be painted? Thank you so much much
Jon, Thank you for the great information about CARbureTERs paint. But I think I will go with the way it come from the factory.
Gene, The acorn nuts were painted the engine color? That makes since if the engine was fully assembled when painted. That would make the gaskets painted also.
I haven't heard anything from Tiny yet on this subject. I would be interested on his input(:- !
John- the black paint WAS the way it came from the factory!
EDIT: Gene is correct about the plugs, as the cast iron body was painted both outside AND INSIDE before the plugs were installed.
Ole - the paint was brushed on, and probably very little, if any paint ever made it into the passages.
When we were still restoring, we generally left MOST of the drive plugs in place, which was technically incorrect. We would blow compressed air BOTH DIRECTIONS in all passages, and those that had good flow we left the drive plugs. Obviously, all of the threaded plugs were removed.
About 90 percent of the carbs had the idle circuit cross passage (the horizontal one at the top) blocked. Finally quit testing those, and just automatically pulled the plug and cleaned the passage.
When painting, we used 60 percent gloss black (satin black). Before painting (your question), I would carefully block all passageways, and then spray paint the body, both inside and out.
For those that wish to remove the drive plugs, Carter had a special tool, that, on an 80-year old carburetor, will remove about 50 percent; the other 50 percent require drilling and a slide hammer! The tool probably worked very well if the carbs were only, say, 10 years old.
I believe the inside of the bowl was coated with a clear sealer that prevented the gas from seeping through the cast iron. Is this true? I would also think the Carter paint was gas resistant for the fuel mixture of the day. Not sure what it would do with todays formulations...
Gene - I have no record of a clear sealer; the Carter literature said use the black paint inside and out. And yes, the Carter paint was gasoline resistance, when gasoline actually existed. I haven't seen any of the genuine Carter paint in probably 40 years, and the can I saw was dried up on the inside; so have no idea how it would react to modern fuel (imitation gasoline).
I distinctly remember a post that said that the 1941 carburetor was not painted except for the cap on top. Now I find out that the whole dang thing was painted inside and out except for a couple of plugs. I sure would like for mine on the grey car to be correct but I don't think at this point I will ever find the correct answer. This is confusing, frustrating and annoying when the answers keep changing year in and year out.
John, I think the bell-housing was without the transmission when it and the engine was painted. Of course, like we're told about the carburetor, it was probably pained on the inside where the clutch, etc lived. Go figure.
Gene, every dang generator I've ever seen had the entire thing painted black. Now it appears that such is not the case.
I sure would like some definitive scoop on what was painted and what was not. My fig newtons are more scrambled now than ever. Mercy!
John, it appears that almost everything I posted was incorrect even though I was relying on years of searching for the straight skinny here on the Chat. I thought I had it about right. Finally. But lo and behold that seems to not be the case. It seems that what the correct answers are as elusive as ever. Please just go with whatever information the others say is right for now, If it doesn't seem right just wait; it will change again next year. Or sooner.
Chrome looking strap on a generator with white ends. Hmmm. I reckon that would make it look something like a Zebra. Hard to put my mind around that one. But if Gene says so then that is the end of it.
John, et al: Good luck finding solid, non-changing factual information. I've plumb give up. Have too!
Best,
Charlie
BTW: i have been a party to causing this thread being on a tangent from the original question about the color (sheen, etc) of the engine and components paint. I sincerely apologize to all those who are alarmed and annoyed with me for my part in these instant unforgivable bad posts. Real bad posts. Yep.
BTW2: I wonder how many who profess to know for sure what the paint schemes are supposed to be, will become scarce as hen's teeth when the judging begins. Assuming the judges know what they are supposed to know and are not misled by false information fed them by self proclaimed expert bystanders. Heavens to Betsy!
Over the years extensive research by VCCA members verified that the engine was assembled with empty clutch housing (housing used to insure proper line boring). The support brackets for the generator were also installed as were the manifolds. Then the assembly was cleaned and painted. The other parts like generator, starter, fan, carburetor were individually assembled and painted prior to installation with a utility grade paint. Those parts would have been coated by dipping, spraying or brushing.
My quest for getting my 41 (the cabriolet in particular) correct has been extensive.
I think I know the answer to most of the things but still somewhat confused about the Generator and Starter particularly the ends of each, Also, I had thought information abut the carburetor not being painted except for the cover on top was chiseled in stone. That is a source of further confusion. Paining the carburetor inside and out seems to not hold with what I've been led to believe. I would like to get that right also before I rattle the can again.
An article on pre-WWII six cylinder carburetors was published in the February 2002 G&D pages 14-15. It documents 1929-1942 originally installed carburetors with references to verify the information. A few replacements are also covered. One of the columns lists the carburetor body color. Black, Gray and Brown painted bodies were used during that period.
A copy of the article is attached. If you can't open it email me your email address I can attach a copy of the article to my reply.
There are also some articles in past G&D issues on engine colors, etc. Someone might research a particular year or group of years and write another one for submission.
The newly initiated effort to get all issues of the G&D scanned and available to VCCA members online will eventually make these and other technical articles more easily available. See your March G&D for more details on how you can help fund the effort. I contributed will you?
Jon I had noticed that before in the literature I have. I also noticed that a carburetor I obtained and installed on my 46 truck is a bronze brown color. And whatever the coloring is, it's very thin, and very tough. Almost like it was plated on.
The carb works alright EXCEPT I've never been able to make it idle right. Always idles better with the choke 1/2 out. Needs no choke once the main circuit picks up the load. I'm sure the top cross passage in the idle circuit must be plugged as you have previously stated.
Does this suggest I actually have a 492s economy carburetor? I've don't think the number was on the base flange any more, and I didn't think to measure the venturi last time it was off, so I've been wondering this since I read that.
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![[Linked Image from thecarburetorshop.com]](https://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Carter_General_331_B.jpg)
