VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Electrical - 6 volt Lethargic electric, slow starter '48 Fleetmaster

I have a 1948 Fleetmaster. The car has never started well in the time that I've owned it. The starter turns very slowly and completely slows to a stop if the engine is warm.

New 6 volt battery, new 00 battery cables installed, starter and generator rebuilt by a very reputable shop. Knowing that a bad ground can cause these symptoms, I connected both leads of a jumper cable to the starter body and then direct to the battery neg terminal = no difference.

Confirmed that the generator is working fine but the settling point on the ammeter is halfway between center and far right. It eventually stays steady with little bouncing around.

Headlights are much dimmer than other 6 volt cars that I own.
The horn volume is not nearly as loud as my buddy's '48 Fleetline.

The car does start better with a shot from a jump pack. It also starts better when I jump it with another 6-volt car.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Steve A,

Sounds to me that you have covered everything that may impact slow starting. Nonetheless, it is obvious that something is amiss. Try this:

a. Take the spark plugs out and then try turning it over. If still somewhat slow then it's the starter.

b. If it spins right up like a bat out of hell, then it would seem there is nothing wrong with the starter and must, therefore, be in the ground or battery..

c. If the battery seems good, then turn everything off and use the 12V jumper, If still not up to snuft, then it's back to the starter.

d. Take the starter down and replace the brushes or make sure they are facing the right way on the commutator. Check the armature. Take a knife or something and clean the grooves in the commutator. Turn the commutator and either sand it with light sandpaper or a file while it rotates using a large drill.and vise. Change the switch. Check the fields. Check to see if there is a ground between the armature and the commuter: there shouldn't be.

Don't tell you very reputable shop that you are checking the starter behind them. They may then seem a little perturbed.

Good luck with it,

Charlie

BTW: My take on this may be way off but you sure got something that's not pulling its weight. The wild card about the lights still point to the cable and/or ground strap: Make sure the ground strap point is free of paint and attached at the right place. Close to the starter. dance:

BTW2: Now you will have others jump in with advice. I only jumped in so that others will point out my erroneous thinking.

Some toughts of mine.
Is the ground strap in good condition" It does not need to be the braided non-insulated strap. A good 00 insulated strap if fine. Also it must have a good clean non-painted connection to the engine.
I would not advise tinkering with the voltage reglator The two main adjustment are the volts and amps. With the volts correctly set the charging system shoukd be sending about 7.3 amps to the battery after engine running for 20 minutes. Easy to test
Also the large wire that attaches to the starter switch should be 10 gauge...

Ground strap is a brand new braided variety. It is grounded directly to one of the bolts on the flange of the starter. That's about as direct as I can make it. All surfaces are clean and contact is good. I even ran an extra ground directly from the battery to the case of the starter and no change.

I would voltage drop the battery cables. If you’ve never done a voltage drop test, I like to use a digital volt meter. Start with one lead on the positive post and the other lead on the starter post, and crank the engine, you should not see any more than 1/2 volt, note the circuit has to be loaded for the test. Then do the same on the ground side, battery post to the starter case. I have found cables that looked good but were bad where the cable was made in to the clamp.

another simple test would be to run a wire from the battery directly to one of the headight wire terminals on the junction block for the head lightd and see if that makes the lamp brighter.

I'm with Charlie on this. It sure sounds like a starter problem. I'd bet on bearings. If they are worn then the armature can get to close to the field coils which results in much higher current needed to turn the load (the engine). Of course this doesn't explain the dim headlights, but that could still be a separate problem.

What voltage are you reading at the battery before you try to start the car? Your notes about better starting with a jump pack or another 6 volt car might be a clue.

What voltage do you read at the battery when the engine is running?

I also wonder why the ammeter does not settle closer to center after the car has been running a while. I agree that it should show charging after the car starts because the generator is re-charging the battery. After the battery is re-charged the regulator should cut the amperage back to just above 0 (center) to maintain things.

Rusty, the battery is at 6.4 volts prior to starting. 7.4 volts on the battery when the engine is running. I think the ammeter's center is off and that's why it is reading to the right. The needle behaves as it should, it just zeros to the right of center.

I tried this today. Without plugs, it spun very fast. Plugs in and it had one heck of a time overcoming the compression. I went through all of the ground points. Everything is clean and solid. The starter shop said that they'd be happy to take a look at the starter for me. Just hate to go through that exercise of removing it again but that seems like the most logical next step.

Steve

PROBLEM SOLVED, this is a follow up for anyone experiencing similar issues. Perhaps it will give you some ideas of where to look.

Recap: New battery, new correct gauge cables for 6Volt system, connections for ground and power cables are clean and good, starter and generator had both been rebuilt about 2 years ago, generator and voltage regulator both working as they should. Starter exhibits slow turning and complete halt after a few tries. Worse when engine is warm, doesn't even turn over.

Here's what I did that I believe made a difference:
Removed starter from bellhousing. Found that the mating area on the bellhousing had paint on it. Used a wire wheel to remove paint and clean up the surface. Confirmed that the flange of the starter was also clean and free of any coatings. Put the starter back on thinking this was the source of the problem only to find that there was no improvement in the starter's performance.

Removed the starter again and took it back to my rebuild shop. When it was disassembled, they found that the power switch had rotated and was possibly not making good contact. Also found that the ground field screws had corrosion on them where they are attached to the inside of the starter housing. Additionally, there was evidence of oil under the switch housing that may have come from a valve cover leak. Ground screws replaced and all corrosion cleaned away. Switch cleaned, realigned and tightened securely. The starter bench tested great.

Remounted the starter and cables and noticed a vast improvement in the performance of the starter. The starter now rotates with all the speed and power that it should. I suspect that I may have been seeing a perfect storm of many small issues that were all coming together to cause a big problem. I'm not entirely sure why but the previously reported issue of dim lights and soft horn also seem to have resolved. Thank you all for your great suggestions. I'm a happy camper. YAY!

We all learn a lot from posts that follow up on how problems were solved. Thanks Steve for the time you spent telling us how you worked through your starter issues.

Thanks, Mike