My 1938 Chevrolet hasn't run in about 15 years. I videoed the gas tank and found where it was dry. The glass bowl in the fuel pump was full of something that I suppose was gasoline a long time ago. I took the fuel pump apart and cleaned the intake valve and screen, and put it back together. Then I primed the copper line that connects the fuel pump to the carburetor. Then I pulled a suction on the gasoline tank line to make sure it was feeding good gasoline to the pump. I put it all back together and tried to crank the engine. The engine tries to turn over (it will run for about 1.5 seconds or so) then die. The glass bowl on the fuel pump is empty. This needs to have fuel in it, as the fuel goes into it and then through the screen on the top inside, then toward the carburetor. I have the shop manual, so I understand how it works; the problem is it isn't working! It seems the engine has to run for a while to pump the little diaphragm under the fuel pump to fill the bowl, but I can't get the engine running long enough to fill the bowl! Catch 22? Thanks for any help!!!
See similar question of mine just before yours. When my car sits for a few weeks, no amount of cranking will get the filter in front of the carb filled. It takes me three pours into the throat of the carb to get it going. Each time I'll get 3-5 seconds of strong run. Usually on the third one it will keep running. Responses to my post seem to indicate a weak fuel pump. I'll add it to the list.
I take it that 100% of your fuel is now fresh? Did you clean the tank? If there is old gas present, it can cause the valves to stick and bend the pushrods after a good run and shutdown.
If fuel in tank is fresh, simply pour some down the carb and start it. You may need to do this a couple times. The engine running should get the pump moving fuel, especially since you 've got it most of the way there already...
1938 Canadian Pontiac Business Coupe (aka a 1938 Chevy Coupe with Pontiac shaped front sheet metal - almost all Chevy!) 1975 4-speed L82 Vette
Thanks guys. I think my fuel pump is not functioning correctly. Next weekend I am going to take it off the engine (I only took off the top section) and test it by immersing the inlet end and hand-pumping the lever. I think that's my problem. And I am going to be a little more free with the gasoline down the carburetor! I have been putting in about a tablespoon or so - sounds like from your comment(s) I can put maybe more like a 1/8 cup or so? I broke the glass top on the fuel filter line this evening, trying to pry it loose to clean the filter. So I am going to order a replacement from the Filling Sta. The way I am restoring my '38 is by working on it on the weekend, finding what parts I need, listing the parts I broke (LOL), ordering them on Monday, receiving them on Thursday, then working on them Friday. Then repeat and repeat! Lol. Thanks again guys
There is a test in my truck shop manual that involves putting the outlet into a jar and cranking the engine. It should pump at a certain rate. Many fuel pumps will perform at engine speed but fail to bring fuel up at cranking speed.
My 1951 1 Ton is now on the road! My 38 Master 4 Door is also now on the road .
Did you clean the lines? Pulling fresh gas thru the lines could be loosening the crud in the lines where it will end up in either the carb or the fuel pump. To test the fuel pump disconnect the line at the carb and put the end into a clear plastic bottle. Crank the engine for a few seconds. Gas should stream easily into the bottle and you will also be able to see if it has crud in it. Best done with a helper and a quart bottle .
Gaskets in water pumps shrink when they dry out. If you have a glass settling bowl the gasket between the bowl and housing is critical. If it leaks a teensy bit of air the pump will only work at higher engine speeds. All pumps should work fine at cranking speed.
"I broke the glass top on the fuel filter line this evening, trying to pry it loose to clean the filter."
Mark,
I have an original of one of those glass bowls if you can use it, not a China repop like the vendors offer. Please let me know if you are interested.
This is an interesting thread about pouring a shot glass-1/8 cup of gas into the carb several times to start the engine What a great way to dilute the oil.
Vintage Ford parts vendors have individual parts for your fuel pump. I got a diaphragm from Sacramento Vintage Ford for my '36 Chevy to avoid having to buy a complete kit just to get one part.
Ray A small shot of fuel then cranked up generally isnt enough for liquid to get onto pistons or into the sump.
Mark If the fuel pump hasnt done much in that time I would suspect the diaphram has gone hard and only just moving but not enough to pump properly, I have had that happen to a 5 year old pump.
Thanks Tonyw. I can't get the fuel pump to pump. I cleaned it thoroughly but your presumption is probably correct. I have ordered a replacement from the Filling Sta and will install it this weekend, I think that will get the fuel to the carb. Thanks again!
I don't claim to be an "Expert" on any of this stuff. That job is already taken. I do, however, heed the cautions of actual professionals in automotive fields. They caution that even a rich carburetor setting can cause "Fuel Wash". So one can only imagine what this would do if administered repeatedly to momentarily start the engine enough times to finally fill the float bowl:
"And I am going to be a little more free with the gasoline down the carburetor! I have been putting in about a tablespoon or so - sounds like from your comment(s) I can put maybe more like a 1/8 cup or so?"
If I prime" an engine through the carburetor, I always put the air cleaner back on before trying to start it in case it might backfire and start a fire.
Thanks everyone. Got a new fuel pump from the Filling Station and it filled up nicely during cranking. There are six bolts that hold the upper unit to the lower unit, and the instructions said to tighten these prior to installation. I did that, but during cranking, I noticed moisture at this connection, and sure enough, it was gasoline. I tightened the upper unit to the lower unit even tighter, and that seemed to stop that leak. I now have fuel feeding my fuel filter. HOWEVER, my fuel filter will not fill completely. I have tightened and tightened and tightened the glass bowl until I feel it will break, and still it will not fill. My 80-year-old dad ran a service station back in the 50's and 60s and he believes air is getting in the fuel line somehow.
Next weekend my goal is to temporary disconnect the fuel filter and bypass it straight to the carb. If I can get the engine to run then, I think that will tell me the fuel filter is not airtight.
What about my carburetor? My choke connection was loose, and although I kept it on full choke, the choke opened 90 degrees and the engine would stop. We tightened the choke connection and the choke would still open during cranking about 45 degrees or so. Is it supposed to do that? I would think it would stay choked, but it doesn't.
Thanks everyone
My four-month wait on my antique plates will be up soon, and I sure would love to drive my beautiful '38 when they come in.
So are you saying that the car will still not start? My '48 has a glass bowl filter by the carb and it never is full of fuel but the engine runs fine like that.
Thanks for that help Uncle Ed! Maybe my problem is in the carb and not in the fuel filter. The engine starts and runs about 1.5 to 2 seconds and then dies, and when it dies, it feels like it runs out of fuel, but I am beginning to wonder about the shape of my carburetor. Thanks again
But Uncle Ed, I have to ask, how does fuel go down into the bowl of the fuel filter, and then up again into the "out" line of the filter, if you can see the level of fuel in the filter below the "out" line?
I really don't know, there is a filter in the bowl on mine and it gets the fuel to the carb. I always thought it was strange that the bowl wasn't full but it works?
Thanks for the replies. My inlet and outlet on my fuel filter are directly across from each, at the top of the glass bowl fuel filter. I am going to call the Filling Sta this morning (after they open) and talk to them too..... thanks everyone
Thanks Scott! I talked to Jon, the guy that runs the Carburetor shop in Missouri, and he said I have to have faith that the filter will still flow, even though I can see a little "line" at the top. I also found out my carb is a Rochester, and is in horrible shape. I ordered a rebuilt 1938 Carter W-1 from Jon and look forward to pulling the Rochester out and replacing it! Here is his URL: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/. I was amazed at Jon's knowledge of carburetors! Jon said his carbs are rebuilt to withstand the ethanol that is in gasoline today. I am glad because about the only place I can find non-ethanol gas is at a marina on the Red River, several miles out of town. Thanks again everyone
I expect that there will always be a small air gap at the top of the outside of the glass bowl in this type filter
The fuel flows into the assembly through a hole in the outer edge of the metal cap and then down the outside of the filter. It then flows through the filter and out to the carburetor from the center of the filter. The hole out of the assembly is in the center of the metal housing.
If you look at the small pocket of air in Scott's picture you see that the fuel level is all the way to the top of the medium in the filer element. It stops about where the end metal cap on the filter media starts. Fuel cannot flow through the metal end cap. So that air is basically "trapped" there with no negative consequences.
Over time and driving some of the air might disappear due to the fuel moving side-to-side or front-to-back as the car starts and stops, turns, and is driven on hills.
I have an inline cylindrical filter near the fuel tank outlet on my car. There is always an air bubble on the top side because that air is above the outlet hole.
Rusty, that's the best explanation I have seen. Thanks so much. And Mike, thanks for the tip about non-ethanol gas in our neck of the woods! I am anxiously awaiting the Carter carburetor to come in ... then once I fix one of the emergency brake cables, get the rear tailights to work, and install the carburetor I will be driving down the road! Thanks everyone
