VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc '41 differential swap

I'm considering putting a 3.55:1 ring & pinion in my '41. Chevs of the 40s price is 370 plus 499 for the installation kit. Filling Station price is 400 plus 419.50 for the installation kit, saving $50. And then there is Joe somebody in Tucson, VCCA #37127, selling just the ring & pinion for 350. Anyone have any experience with any of these and care to make a recommendation?

"I'm considering putting a 3.55:1 ring & pinion in my '41. Chevs of the 40s price is 370 plus 499 for the installation kit. Filling Station price is 400 plus 419.50 for the installation kit, saving $50. And then there is Joe somebody in Tucson, VCCA #37127, selling just the ring & pinion for 350. Anyone have any experience with any of these and care to make a recommendation?"

Bobl,

What's wrong with a 3.55 gear set out of a '50-'54 Chevy car that somebody is making a street rod out of? When I did the 3.55 conversion in my '36 PU I got a complete '51 rear axle for $125 from a street rod builder. Here's the whole story:

https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/topics/334876/1936-chevy-3-55-rear-gear-conversion.html

And what's up with $420-500 for an "installation kit"? The only required "kit" is 2 gaskets and some pinion spacer shims. The shims are in old rear axles that guys have lying around and the gaskets are inexpensive parts store items or can even be made from grocery store shopping bags.

Ray W

I think the theory of using the kit is that you want to do it right once. Having new bearings to do the job is the normal way of doing things.

My question would be, if you by the gearset from Joe, and the kit from the Filling Station, and you go to press on the pinion bearing without success, who do you call?

I don't think you could go wrong with any of the above. I do agree with Old216 regarding getting all from the same vendor. My choice would be The Filling Station if I had to choose only because of past experience with them. That being said I did install 3.55 gears in my 51 and got a used gear set and purchased bearings from a bearing supplier.

Like old216 said, you can just swap the gears, shim and set the lash but when you have that much apart, it's worth at least doing the differential side bearings since you are handling them anyway. The pinion bearing is pressed so you will need a new one. That leaves the axle seals and bearings to leave or replace.

It's ideal to refresh everything while you are inside there, setting the lash and adding new fluid. It would be terrible to do just the minimum, have an old bearing fail and chew up the new ring/pinion set you just installed.

Tim, Steve and 216,

In considering bearing durability you're all forgetting an important factor. The bearings that are factory installed are USA made, probably New Departure. Simply looking at them will tell their condition:

https://www.knowyourparts.com/techn.../identify-tapered-roller-bearing-damage/

The ones I found in both the 1937 and 1951 rear axles I used in my project were all perfect. I saved the ones I didn't use thinking someone would be able to use them some day. I would give them away. The ones the vendors sell now are most likely junk from China and won't have the durability of used USA made ones in pristine condition.

Bearings well maintained last forever. The best example I can think of is the front wheel bearings in my 1971 Dodge van that I bought new and still have. I have always serviced them at the factory service manual recommended 24,000 mile intervals and at over 362,000 miles they still look perfect.

And what about the gears? They are probably from China too. No thanks!

Tim, the axle bearings and seals are common bearing supplier items.

I don't get why anyone would rather pay The Filling Station or some other vendor $800-900 for parts that street rod builders practically give away. And that $800 - 900 doesn't include paying someone to do all the work. Here's how simple the insides of a rear axle are:

https://www.chevyhardcore.com/tech-stories/drivetrain/rearend-gear-swap/

And old Chevy rear axles are even simpler than what's described in the article because they don't have a pinion crush sleeve, using a simple to adjust shim pair instead.

There is a '50 Chevy car for sale in my neighborhood right now with those 3.55 gears and it will probably become a street rod.

Ray W

Good to point out not to use some of the overseas bearings for those who are not aware. NOS, NORS or current USA made bearings/seals are preferred in that order. If the originals are indeed in good shape, by all means inspect and use them. One thing most of us have learned over the years is that NEW doesn't necessarily equate to BETTER or WORKING lol...

The implication was not to do a quick gear-only swap but to make sure all related components are up to snuff...

I don't believe that any bearings last forever. They last longer when taken care of properly but they don't last forever

"I don't believe that any bearings last forever. They last longer when taken care of properly but they don't last forever".

Very true. I should have said "hundreds of thousands of miles". I learned that from a bearing installation, maintenance and diagnosis handbook published by Timken decades ago. The examples in the Timken manual are matched by the bearings in my '71 dodge van. When I bought that van in 1971 garbage bearings from China didn't exist yet, or at least vehicle manufacturers weren't using them yet. On the '71 Van I've replaced the rear axle pinion seal and the front and rear axle wheel bearing seals a few times because they simply wore out, but all the bearings except for those in the engine and on engine accessories (water pump, starter, alternator, AC compressor) are original.

It is possible to still find made in USA bearings but they cost a little more but one gets what one pays for.

But if he finds a 3.55 rear axle pulled by a street rod builder and now gathering dust and the gears and bearings look good an easy $1000+ was just saved. And those parts will be USA made. I'll take that any day.

Ray W

While I too like Made in U.S.A. parts, I do think the China and Japan parts are make up good standards.

Japanese/China materials, steel et al, and workmanship will equal Detroit quite well.

I have two Lexus cars. One a 1999 LS 300 and a 2012 LS 460. The older one has over 220K on it now. Still going strong and no bearing problems what so ever.

I think Honda, Nisson and Toyota have strong bearings, also.

I'm not putting down U.S.A. made stuff but saying that far east stuff is still betting a bad press without it being no longer warranted. :German cars and their bearings have no need of defense. dance:

Just my opinion.

Charlie

Japanese is usually very good quality.

It's the Chinese products that can be sometimes questionable but it depends on who is giving them the specifications, doing the QA checking and how much they are paying. They make what they are told and paid to make. They can make top notch products if they are spec'd for them and someone babysits the production.

I worked for a Japanese company for a couple decades and we had to outsource to China to reduce costs and the manufacturing literally had a "menu" of quality levels that we could choose and pay for.

"I worked for a Japanese company for a couple decades and we had to outsource to China to reduce costs and the manufacturing literally had a "menu" of quality levels that we could choose and pay for."

Tim.

Therein lies the problem. The retail customer has no way of knowing what "quality level" was selected from the "menu". Long experience has shown that bearings from China and third world countries are often very low quality. Why take the chance, especially in the context of this discussion where people are actually considering spending $1000 + or - for questionable (made in China?) 3.55 gear components when known high quality parts from a 1950-54 Chevy car are out there?

I don't hear the vendors of this stuff chiming in here saying "Hey, my stuff is high quality made in USA, not junk form China". I wonder why?

Ray W

For the most part they don't frequent "Chattter". Those that might also might not see your challenging post.

Your inference is that USA manufactured goods are better. My observation and experience over the past 50 years is not always.

Do I try to use USA parts and goods when I can? Yes, as I feel supporting USA workers is important both past and present. (Hope that is not too political.)

Cheers, Dean

Guys,

Here's an unedited discussion of bearing quality:

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/ball-bearing-comparison-92315/

Here's a quote from Bearing-NEWS.com, a bearing industry publication:

"China on the other hand is dominated by thousands of bearing producers, all ranging in their capabilities. To give you perspective, there are over 2,000 producers in Jiangsu Province alone. It’s not unlikely for one company or purchasing department to be burned by one or even several Chinese companies before becoming completely turned off by all other Chinese product. When I explain this to my clients, my favorite example is a statement made by my international trade attorney: “99% of lawyers give the rest of us a bad name.” Which, unfortunately, is also a great statement when replacing the word ”˜lawyers’ with ”˜Chinese bearing companies.’ There are world-class producers in China, but the key is finding them."

Except for front wheel bearings on rear wheel drive vehicles, most bearings are accessible only after a lot of component removal and disassembly (lots of time and labor). So it seems like a good idea to use only quality parts that will not require replacement. Chinese bearings are questionable at best so why not avoid them whenever possible?

Ray W