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Filling station shows two different kits and corresponding carb numbers. I have two Carter W-1 carbs. Number on one is 0-421 and the other is 0 603. I see a round shaft carb #420 and a flat shaft #616, but I don't see 421orr 603 in The Filling Station catalog info.. I want to make sure I order the correct rebuild kit. Have not dissembled anything yet. Where is the accelerator pump shaft located? If it is the long shaft on the exterior, then both of mine are round. Other numbers on the carbs are patents. Thanks.

The 421 carb is the one you will want on your 32. I would call the Filling Staton and ask why their listing does not include the 421 as they list 32-40 for the round shaft. The accelerator pump shaft is under the cover and I believe the one that the outer rod (throttle connector) attaches to. On the parts list it's referenced as plunger and rod assy. I would suggest you get the carb rebuilt by a qualified rebuilder. Unless you have the special tools and parts to rebuild it, it will be more than difficult to get the best performance from the carb.

Thanks Steve. It also has a tag on it with number 574 S. Understand that Chevy made carbs used this as the carb number? However there is no large C on the casting to indicate it was Chevy. Shaft going down into carb from the top is flat instead of round. Filling Station indicates different kits for flat or round accelerator shaft carbs.

Bertus,

Check out this site. The kits they sell are excellent.

Dave
http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Carburetor_ID.htm#IDCarter

better link

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/CarterChevroletW1.htm

The Carter 574-S is for a 1941-42 and a 1946 Chevrolet and it is not for your 1932. When ordering a kit you will need to go by the tag number and not the casting number such as "421". Before you order a kit I would suggest that you get the correct carburetor for your 1932 such as a 212-S (early) or a 235-S (late). The later replacement carburetor for your 1932 is a Carter 569-S and it is a better running carburetor for driving than the two original carburetors listed above. As I remember, both the 569-S and the 574-S used that same body casting number of "421".

I agree, the best rebuild kits are available from the Carburetor Shop in Eldon, Missouri.

Thanks for the info. Ya learn sumthin every day!
Are there major differences between the 569-S and the 574-S? Also I guess there is no assurance that the tag on the 421 body is correct is there?
I will probably put my two carbs on the parts for sale forum and ask about a 569-S on parts wanted. Any ball park figures on values?
If tags can be removed is there any other way to identify the correct carb?
Sorry for all the questions - I'm swimming in strange waters here.

If there is a tag on the carb that's good but often when rebuilt the tag disappears, Sometimes the number is stamped in the bottom of the base. Otherwise it's sometimes possible to identify by the numbers stamped in some of the other parts. Before you list it for sale it might be best to properly identify what you have. As JYD pointed out the later 574-s used the flat accelerator rod and ALSO the #421 body.The early W-1 carbs 32-36 used a round accelerator rod and also a straight throttle arm and a bent or dogleg arm was used on 37 and later carbs.

The 569S and 574s will have a 1 1/2" throttle bore (and throttle plate diameter}......Any 1940 and earlier carb. will have a 1 7//16" bore.
The 569S is a 1948 passenger car car. with the straight throttle lever so it will work on a 1932-1936 car and was a fits-all unit for earlier models (and improved)>>>. Th e 574S is an actual 1941-1948 truck carb. and will have the off set or zig-zag lever as used from 1937 and up. Internals and parts for 569 and 574 the same.

So if I can find a straight throttle lever to replace the zig zag lever, then the 574S should work?

The lever also comes with the thottle plate shaft. The shaft is half round for attachment of the throttle plate. The half round part of the shaft will be too narrow for the 1 1/2" throttle plate as all straight levers had a 1 7/16" plate......so you must file 1/32" from each side to increase the flat area.

In addition to the difference in the flat for the throttle plate, the '32-'36 throttle shaft assemblies are are shorter. They are not long enough to support the curved arm that the coordinating rod fits into. There are a few options. Find a throttle arm assembly from a 569s, replace just the arm from the 574s with one from 1932-36 (not that easy but can be done), cut and weld the arm to remove the "dog leg".

This carb has the top bracket to to hold the choke and throttle cables offset to line up with the zig zag cable below. Will it work like this?

Also - there is a refurbished 569S carb on ebay from Carburetor Center in El Monte California. Anybody have any experience with them?

The bracket you are describing is from the 1940's. You can use what ever was on the 1932.

Thanks for the info - much appreciated. Buying a refurbished 569S. That way I know it will work.
Still looking for a brake cable bracket if anyone has one.
Thanks.

Did you get the bracket I shipped on 12/08? USPS shows it delivered 12/10 @10:10am. I previously shipped one in error to another member in Canada as he also has his location as Ontario , Canada. I had sent you a PM regarding correct shipping address but I shipped before you replied hoping to save a trip to the post office. Just tracked that one (shipped 12/06) and it is apparently lost.

Hi Steve:
My stuff comes to Port Huron Michigan, and I only go there once in about 6 weeks, but my soninlaw was there on the 15th and it was not there. I had a dipstick sent there from another VCCA member and it got lost too. Not sure what is going on. Was it in a box? Sometimes envelopes get forwarded to the company's office in London Ontario. Checked with them and nothing. Can you give me the tracking number?
Many thanks though for sending it! Not sure what to do going forward.

"Thanks for the info - much appreciated. Buying a refurbished 569S. That way I know it will work.
Still looking for a brake cable bracket if anyone has one.
Thanks."

Bertus,

That 569S may physically fit but that does not mean it will deliver the correct air/fuel mixture throughout the engine's operating range. Also, gasoline has changed a lot since those W1 carburetors were made. As an example my '36 Chevy PU thrives on a 1939-49 Chevy W1 with 1937 Chevy metering rod and main jet installed. That combination was arrived at by a lot of experimentation with different parts and keeping detailed notes. I have the correct original '36 carburetor stored for the sake of authenticity but the hybrid carburetor works way better (better starting, better power, better fuel economy).

It's easy to make your own "569S" like I did. If you're interested I have a bunch of NOS Carter W1 kits and parts that would make the job easy for you, Those W1 carburetors are about as complicated as a brick. Anyone can work on them and various modern parts fit. For example I've created a like new fit of the throttle shaft in the iron casting using readily available Rochester Quadrajet bushings. The only challenge is getting the plugs, jets and check valves out of the threaded holes in the iron casting but there's a simple way to get that job done that works every time

Good luck!

Ray W

The 569S is jetted for a 1941 and up engine and is much leaner jets than a 1932 had. It is a universal more modern carbretor sold to cover older models and usually works well on them.

The tracking number is: 9500 1158 4518 8342 2915 09. Good luck. As a side note I have the 569S #421 carb on my 32 and it works terrific. It's the factory recommended replacement for several earlier carbs and gets better performance and gas mileage than the originals.

"As an example my '36 Chevy PU thrives on a 1939-49 Chevy W1 with 1937 Chevy metering rod and main jet installed."

Oops, my bad. That should read 1939-40 Chevy W1.

"The 569S is jetted for a 1941 and up engine and is much leaner jets than a 1932 had. It is a universal more modern carburetor sold to cover older models and usually works well on them."

Gene, If that is so why were different years jetted differently? The obvious answer is that engines of different designs and different physical characteristics (displacement, compression ratio, bore/stroke relationship, rpm potential,etc,etc etc) have different fuel requirements. Even elevation makes a huge difference in optimal jetting. Back in 1976 when I went to the VCCA National Meet in Colorado Springs I brought a leaner main jet for my '36 PU to use on the Pikes Peak Run because the jet that was just right at sea level would be waaaay too rich on Pikes Peak. Changing the jet took about 5 minutes in Woodland Park at the bottom of the hill and being properly jetted allowed my '36 to go roaring past much more modern and more powerful cars that were belching black exhaust smoke from running rich up the mountain.

Any carburetor can benefit from optimizing for the conditions it's operating in. "OK" running and "optimized" running are, in my experience, not the same.

Ray W

The 569-S was intended as a replacement carburetor for the original 1932-1936 carburetors and it works great on those models. It actually performs better than the original carburetors of that period and the 569-S is very much sought after to use on the 1932 models.

Ray,

What is the secret sauce to get the plugs, jets, and check valves out? I always have a hard time with that.

Thanks

Dave

I grind a screwdriver for a perfect fit. Nice and sharp.

The secret is patience

However, an hour in an ultrasonic cleaner with an exotic liquid (Dawn dishwater soap) will do wonders.

If one does not have access to an ultrasonic cleaner, boiling the unit in a metal coffee can (or other suitable container) with the same liquid will help.

Once the carb is clean, then the straight-bladed screwdriver (above) and minimal pressure. Several sizes of screwdriver are desirable. If the parts won't come out, remove ALL of the pot metal (air horn, bowl cover) from the cast iron, and use heat on the cast iron.

If you ruin a main jet or a check valve, no biggie, as both come in the better kits. The main discharge nozzle and idle jets, while not in the kits are readily available.

Jon.

There have been some comments about jetting in this thread. When discussing calibrations, virtually everyone discusses ONLY the FUEL jetting.

Carburetion 101: definition - a carburetor is a device for metering and mixing fuel AND AIR!

The calibration at any value of vacuum is the result of the combination of the fuel AND air jets. Thus, looking only at the fuel jet sizes from two different carburetors does not tell the entire story. The air bleeds may also be different.

Carter used metering rod technology beginning in 1929. Thus the effective fuel metering at any vacuum (assuming the RPM is sufficient to be on the main circuit) is the dynamic difference of the AREA of the main metering jet, and the AREA of the rod located in the jet at that value of vacuum.

An issue with the W-1 that can upset the metering is wear in the round hole on the throttle shaft bracket supporting the pump rod, and the pump rod itself. Wear will cause the throttle valve to be too far open for the position of the rod in the jet. This wear should be evaluated at any rebuild, and defective parts repaired/replaced.

Altitude is an issue also discussed in this thread. Carter considered the "standard" calibration to be good for use from sea level to 4000 feet. For constant use above 4000 feet, Carter suggested a leaner (thicker) metering rod. It should be noted that the metering rod technology, once correctly calibrated, gives a more uniform A/F ratio, this technology also means that changing calibrations is done by changing rods, not jets. because of the non-linear area changes introduced by a jet change only; it is impossible to maintain the same A/F ratios at all vacuum values by changing the jet only.

For the record, if there is ANY good from using E-10, the lower energy value in E-10 seems to allow standard calibration to be used somewhat higher than the 4000 foot recommendation.

Jon.

Steve - thanks for the tracking number. Will let you know if I find it.
Ray - so a 574S can be made into a 569S? Thanks for the offer on the kits. Will see how things go and contact you if needed.
Thanks to all who responded with info. I took the easy (and expensive) way out and bought a refurbished 569S supposedly properly calibrated and tested by a long established carburetor shop. Some of the details mentioned previously scared me away from getting a kit and doing it myself.

"Ray,

What is the secret sauce to get the plugs, jets, and check valves out? I always have a hard time with that."

Dave, the suggestion I got from JYD is to heat the stuck brass item to a dull red heat with an oxy-acetylene torch with a very small tip then let it cool. I tried that and it has worked every time. That, obviously, has to be done VERY carefully to keep the brass item as solid and not turn it into a liquid.

"Some of the details mentioned previously scared me away from getting a kit and doing it myself."
"Ray - so a 574S can be made into a 569S?"

Bertus, I see that you're selling some W1 carburetors. If you disassemble one of those I think you'll be astonished at how simple they are. There is no need to be intimidated. I made my own 569S and I'm just an amateur, not a pro like Jon, so how hard can it be? Complicated are a Quadrajet or a Thermoquad.

"The calibration at any value of vacuum is the result of the combination of the fuel AND air jets. Thus, looking only at the fuel jet sizes from two different carburetors does not tell the entire story. The air bleeds may also be different.

Carter used metering rod technology beginning in 1929. Thus the effective fuel metering at any vacuum (assuming the RPM is sufficient to be on the main circuit) is the dynamic difference of the AREA of the main metering jet, and the AREA of the rod located in the jet at that value of vacuum."

Jon's explanation is excellent and is in any discussion of how carburetors work like Doug Roe's publication on Rochester carburetors. If one accepts what Jon has explained I don't see how anyone can believe that "One size fits all". Carburetors have tremendous potential to optimize engine performance if they are calibrated exactly for the engine and operating conditions they will be used in. With such a huge range of interchangable metering parts available why would anyone not experiment to find what works best in their application? I've heard from Bonneville salt flat racers that in their experience carburetors produce more horsepower in that setting than fuel injection.

"An issue with the W-1 that can upset the metering is wear in the round hole on the throttle shaft bracket supporting the pump rod, and the pump rod itself. Wear will cause the throttle valve to be too far open for the position of the rod in the jet. This wear should be evaluated at any rebuild, and defective parts repaired/replaced."

Jon, thanks for pointing that out. In my own home amateur carburetor reconditioning efforts I have made a jig that allows me to put a bushing in that out of round hole to restore a correct fit. Also, those float bowl covers are abundant on ebay NOS to solve the same problem..

To me the castings of a carburetor are like my wife's crock pot. She puts in the correct ingredients in the correct proportions and what comes out of that is always delicious. If others believe that the "Just add water" stuff at the supermarket tastes the same we'll just agree to disagree. All of this is irrelevant to owners of trailer queens but vintage vehicles that are actually driven might as well perform at their full potential.

Ray W

Thanks all for the info.

Dave

Ray - the issue with the bowl cover you mention is a different issue, but only with the earlier W-1's. The 569s/574s use a revised bowl cover which eliminated that issue. The issue I was referring to is the steel bracket held on the back side of the throttle shaft with a single screw, and the "L" shaped rod connecting this bracket to the rocker arm at the top.

Jon.

Wow - sure are a lot of different opinions on carbs! Thanks to all for the info - very educational.
Doesn't seem to be a lot of demand for my old carbs so I think I will take one apart as a training exercise.

"Wow - sure are a lot of different opinions on carbs! Thanks to all for the info - very educational."

Yes, the abundance of "opinions" on these car forums, especially VCCA Chat and Stovebolt that seem to rely on single designated "gurus" no matter the subject, is what makes them amusing to read. If you ask Jon, a true carburetor professional, to explain how carburetors work or read Doug Roe's Rochester Carburetors & Emissions Controls you will learn why it's very unlikely that a carburetor specifically intended for one vehicle would also be perfectly jetted for another engine "out of the box".

I think the reliance on single experts on forums has the benefit of being easy and quick but how can these "Experts" know all there is to know, no matter the subject? Obviously they can't.

"Doesn't seem to be a lot of demand for my old carbs so I think I will take one apart as a training exercise."

Taking them apart won't diminish their value because it's probably been done many times before, as long as you reassemble them. When you take them apart don't be surprised to find missing and/or damaged parts. That's typical of those old cores.It's the prices you've put on them Bertus. For a reality check take a peek at W1 carburetors on ebay. Here's one with the flat throttle shaft arm that your '32 needs and at $19 "buy it now" there are no takers:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-CARTER-W1-CARBURETOR-C-ORIGINAL-CHEVROLET-1930-1936-216-RAT-ROD/223287604102?hash=item33fcfa7386:g:cs8AAOSwI2xbeiEv:rk:51:pf:0

I've got several of them that I probably couldn't even give away because the cost of a USPS Flat Rate shipping box exceeds the value of a common W1 core.

Ray W

Bertus - - What carburetor shop did you buy it at? I'm looking for a 259S a 569S.

Thanks,
Dennis

Hi Dennis:
I bought it from "Carburetor Center" 3207 Peck Road, El Monte California 91731. (626) 448-8907

Bertus - the Carter W series of single barrel carburetor (W-0, W-1, and W-2) were excellent in their day, and are still excellent. They intimidate a few because they can be somewhat challenging to disassemble with out the use of heat.

Like most items produced by humans, they did have some "teething" issues, but by the 1939 Chevrolet (420s) issues had been corrected.

The W series uses a leather (totally impervious to alcohol) accelerator pump, and a mechanical power system. You never have to worry about replacing a fatigued vacuum spring, because the mechanical power system is mechanical.

Over the years, we have put W-1's on lots of different applications (including a V-12 Cadillac) with great success. One just needs to do one's homework as to venturi size, etc. when selecting the carbs. The infinite number of metering rod diameter combinations very precise tuning possible (I realize that having the ability to machine metering rods is an advantage here, but lots of standard rods are available). Carter produced 128 DIFFERENT type W-1 carbs, so often a matter of doing a bit of research. The large maroon Carter books often show up on Ebay for not a lot of money, and are an excellent reference.

Too bad that Carter did not continue the W-2 size (would have been correct for a 235 engine), but they did not.

Take one apart, and learn from the experience (first, print off the service instructions on my website). Pick the grungiest one you have. Once you have it apart, you will have confidence to rebuild the better ones.

One newer issue, definitely NOT the fault of the carburetor, but some of the cheaper aftermarket kits for the 483s and 574s are using the same weak pump cup expansion spring used on the newer Rochester Q-Jets. This spring is too weak, and the accelerator pump with this spring will not function correctly. The correct pump spring is the same size as the spring on the rebuildable earlier pumps. Issues caused by using incorrect parts cannot be charged to the carburetor design.

Jon.

Bertus.....Wow, thanks for response. I live in Apple Valley. I will ride my Harley up there and check them out.

Dennis