Vintage Chevrolet Club Forums
A nonprofit organization dedicated to the preservation, restoration and enjoyment of all Chevrolets and GMCs.

VISITORS: You are welcome to read our forums. If you want to participate FREE then you need to register. Join the VCCA and get access to the member-only features of the forum, including the ability to attach/upload photos. You'll also receive our monthly magazine "Generator & Distributor". Yearly membership as low as $25!

VCCA MEMBERS: Already a member? Great! Info to access the members-only area.

Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#366133 - 04/08/16 07:03 PM Re: Watch out J&M Machine Southboro - 2X Estimated 10K [Re: Geraldo]
Geraldo Offline
Shade Tree Mechanic

Registered: 05/11/13
Posts: 71
Loc: Oakland CA

Very helpful itemized pricing from another reputable rebuilder.

Folks could use this to determine reasonableness. Of course there are cost of living differences between regions of the country and you may want to pay a premium to someone you have a good working relationship with.

http://www.rlengines.com/Web_Pages/pricelist.html

Top
How About Joining Us?
Do you like what you see?
Become a member.  Get access to the rest of the club.
Vintage Chevrolet Club of America
"The World's Best Chevrolet Club"
#366134 - 04/08/16 07:04 PM Re: Watch out J&M Machine Southboro - 2X Estimated 11K [Re: Geraldo]
dens41 Offline

Oil Can Mechanic

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 538
Loc: iowa
Chipper is is almost right we owned a shop for 24 years and some are way over 40% and some under. Shops need to make money on parts as well as labor to keep the door open. Many states have laws that you can not go more than 10 % over the estimate without coustomer approval. So if you go to pick up your car and the estimate was $1000.00 and you you get there and they want $1500.00 with out your approval then you would only have to pay $1100.00
_________________________
Dens Chevys 1928 coupe 1941street rod 1947Fleetline 4 door 1949 1/2 ton Pickup 1954 210 4 door 1972 Monte Carlo 2003 Corvette convt..

Top
#366135 - 04/08/16 07:13 PM Re: Watch out J&M Machine Southboro - 2X Estimated 10K [Re: Geraldo]
Happy Birthday 32confederate Offline


1500

Registered: 12/02/01
Posts: 1861
Loc: Vancouver, Washington
Hey Guys,

I've looked over the invoice for Geraldo and don't see any major issues, I think like he said, he needed to get the shop rate and under stand that costs do go up when there is extra work that is needed or requested. With my experience, you get what you pay for. And like Chip said, I've been collecting parts for years to rebuild my engines and don't need to pay the shop extra to find a lot of the parts needed for my engines.

Also I always rebuild my own Carb, Gen, Starter and fuel pump which I'm not paying the shop to do, it cost them time to send out to have restored.

Also costs will go up if welding is needed on the block or head. I have well over $600 in my 32 head right now and its just ready to be installed.

So I need to state my opinion here, J&M is within reason for the work they were doing and process that they were using. There is a big difference between boiling out an engine block and baking and using a shot cleaning process. One process is low cost and you get low quality cleaning, and one is high cost and you get a high quality results.

So my point, be ready to pay for high quality if that is what your looking for. And yes, it is not cheap to build a early Chevrolet 6.

Also always get the scope of the project in writing so you know that your both on the same page.


Edited by 32confederate (04/08/16 07:14 PM)
_________________________
32 Confederate

The Great American Value for 1932
http://www.vccacolumbiariverregion.org/

Top
#366142 - 04/08/16 09:33 PM Re: Watch out J&M Machine Southboro - 2X Estimated 10K [Re: 32confederate]
Geraldo Offline
Shade Tree Mechanic

Registered: 05/11/13
Posts: 71
Loc: Oakland CA

I'm happy to send the invoice to anyone that would like to see if so you can make your own determination. I tried to post it here but cannot find a way to do that. Send me your email address if you are interested.

There is also a well-done list of prices here that provides some apples-to-apples comparisons.

http://www.rlengines.com/Web_Pages/pricelist.html

RL engines prices are in-line with the costs I've seen on my previous two engines.

Top
#366143 - 04/08/16 09:52 PM Re: Watch out J&M Machine Southboro - 2X Estimated 10K [Re: Geraldo]
m006840 Offline



Registered: 11/30/02
Posts: 4706
Loc: merrimack nh
I have sent you my Email in a PM. Click on the red flashing button at the top of the screen when you sign in.
_________________________
Steve D

Top
#366149 - 04/08/16 10:28 PM Re: Watch out J&M Machine Southboro - 2X Estimated 10K [Re: m006840]
Geraldo Offline
Shade Tree Mechanic

Registered: 05/11/13
Posts: 71
Loc: Oakland CA
Steve,

Sorry, I did not see where that is. Could you send me a message to my inbox?

Top
#366159 - 04/09/16 12:19 AM Re: Watch out J&M Machine Southboro - 2X Estimated 11K [Re: dens41]
bobg1951chevy Offline



Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 3339
Loc: Hendersonville, N.C.
Originally Posted By: dens41
Chipper is is almost right we owned a shop for 24 years and some are way over 40% and some under. Shops need to make money on parts as well as labor to keep the door open. Many states have laws that you can not go more than 10 % over the estimate without coustomer approval. So if you go to pick up your car and the estimate was $1000.00 and you you get there and they want $1500.00 with out your approval then you would only have to pay $1100.00


It appears, from earlier posts, that J & W Machine has received high marks, for their work.

Geraldo hit the nail on the head.
Potential customers, anywhere, must request an estimate, as complete as possible, with labor time, labor dollar rates and parts pricing policies for all work, current and supplemental.

Regarding the 10% law.
When I lived in Ohio, I worked in a Chevy dealership.
Back then, in the '70's, the 10% law was in effect, for costs OVER and costs UNDER 10% limit.
Using $1,000 as the estimate, we had to be between $900 and $1,100 OR the customer was responsible for only $25.
It was not enough that a customer could get a financial break, if the repair went under budget.
The State of Ohio found it necessary to give the customer a "bonus", if the estimate went below the 10% guideline.
So, if the estimate, at $1,000, ended up at $850, the customer could LEGALLY pay $25 bucks, and walk out the door, with an invoice marked "PAID IN FULL".
All it took was one "gotcha" incident, then the dealership/shop began calculating all invoices, like the finest auditor ...... never to fall out of the 10% bounds again.
_________________________
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 door sedan. Purchased in 2000.
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe Sport Coupe. Purchased in 2014.
1969 Chevy Corvair 500 Coupe. Purchased in 2017.


Top
#366160 - 04/09/16 12:20 AM Re: Watch out J&M Machine Southboro - 2X Estimated 10K [Re: Geraldo]
m006840 Offline



Registered: 11/30/02
Posts: 4706
Loc: merrimack nh
I was looking to get the copy of the billing on your engine. You can send it to chvy32@comcast.net
_________________________
Steve D

Top
#373443 - 08/09/16 02:30 PM Re: Watch out J&M Machine Southboro - 2X Estimated 10K [Re: 32confederate]
41specialdeluxe Offline



Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 4731
Loc: NC usa
Geraldo,

Down here you can get a 216 rebulit for around 3K. There are two places in town. One is Auto Machine and the other is Moffitts. One across the train tracks from the other. Or they will do the machine work for you and you can put it together yourself. The finished deal carries a 12 months or 12 thousand mile warranty. Put it together yourself and there is no warranty.

There is a truism amoungst many old car enthousists: Do it once, do it right and do it yourself. Much can be said about that being true. It would be hard to screw up putting the engine back together yourself. With the machine work done there would only be a couple of places you have to be real careful. Getting the dippers in the right direction and getting the pan gasket on right. You could write a book on all the advice about getting the pan gasket on right. Look Gene's advice about that.

At the price of gasoline (with ethanol) you could bring it down here and come back to pick it up and still save a bundle over the quote you were given.

Good luck,
Charlie computer

Top
#373606 - 08/13/16 03:52 PM Re: Watch out J&M Machine Southboro - 2X Estimated 10K [Re: 41specialdeluxe]
styleline51 Offline

pumpjockey

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 822
Loc: San Diego, CA
I highly recommend Vermont Engine Service in Williston, VT.
Four years ago, they rebuilt my 54 235 with new rings, cam, valves, push rods, .030 over bore of cylinders, reground my crankshaft for $3400. They KNOW old Chevy engines!! Give them a call. Great folks to deal with. Motor was timed. All I had to do was install it and fire it up!!

16 Krupp Drive, Williston, VT 05495 (802) 863-2326 ask for Dean.

They do require the engine out. They don't pull or install motors.


Edited by styleline51 (08/13/16 03:53 PM)
_________________________
Rick

Top
#376766 - 10/12/16 09:46 PM Re: Watch out J&M Machine Southboro - 2X Estimated 10K [Re: styleline51]
Bill Barker Offline
Previous ChatMaster


Registered: 11/20/01
Posts: 5746
Loc: Issaquah, WA
Quote:
...I did not get a written quote as J&M claimed to not know the exact cost due to unknown factors like crack repair on the head and block.


The above quote clearly identified to me what the "root" of this problem was. Without a written quote, then comparing one person's memory to another's is fruitless. That's why verbal agreements are not enforceable in nearly all 50 states.

For reference, I was with a small group that visited J&M two weeks ago. We spent almost 3 hours there. They were just finishing boring a six-cylinder block when we arrived. Then they showed us some hardened valve seats that they had just inserted. We also spent a lot of time looking at, and questioning, their babbit pouring process.

One comment from our group was how nice and professional the tools are. Almost every item is the latest and greatest. Some are computer controlled. The parts cleaner (engine, heads, etc) is state of the art when it bakes everything at 600 degrees and turns everything INCLUDING INTERNAL RUST to dust. The final product (ready for machining) is absolutely spotless. I can see why this costs extra, and why the final job is so much better quality.

Our final assessment is that the two owners are doing excellent work. They guarantee their work and they appear to abide by quoted timelines and delivery dates. We were positively impressed.

The cost is probably on the high side when you compare them to other shops. We couldn't find a single thing that they don't do, and they seemed to be able to repair almost all flaws - from block/head cracks to valve cracks to crank wear. Their ability to ADD material to a crank or cam bearing surface is way beyond a home hobbyist's ability. But naturally it costs extra. The tool is expensive and the extra time is disruptive.

Our conclusion was that if you were to 1) get a WRITTEN estimate from them, and 2) have no major ADDITIONAL repairs needed, then they would deliver a very satisfactory final product at the agreed-to price. The experience of this post originator is what happens when the above two steps are not followed.

Due to our onsite assessment by 8 VCCA members, and the final experience (when the owner's engine was picked up) and our exhaustive discussion with the owners, we feel that this was an exceptional experience and no one else is likely to have these issues in the future if they get the estimate in WRITING and have NO ADDITIONAL REPAIRS added.

For those reasons, I'm going to close this thread since it doesn't identify an ongoing issue with this vendor.

If you want to continue to discuss ENGINE REBUILDS (lessons learned or tips), then please begin a new thread.

This one is now locked.
_________________________
Bill Barker
Previous VCCA CHAT Administrator
(VCCA Member: 9802)

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2


Moderator:  CHEVY, ken48 
Your Status
Please login to post or reply.* * *
Send My Password
Who's Online
1 Chat Members (Peter_Gariepy), 1 Guest and 35 Spiders or Bots online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Today's Birthdays
32confederate
Helpful Links
Forum Registration
New User Forum
Members Only Forum
Reset Your Password
Kill Your Cookies

VCCA Home
Join the VCCA
Member Photos
My 31' Chevy Show
What is missing?
31' headlight reflectors re-silvered at home
1936 Roadster - S. Africa
Chevy on the Levee
'37 Seat
Forum Stats
15086 Chat Users
79 Forums
50178 Topics
366686 Posts

Max Online: 304 @ 06/18/16 10:00 AM

 

Notice: Any comments posted herein do not necessarily reflect the official position of the VCCA.