VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1946-1948 47 Chevy Lover

DTM,

How can the items mentioned by you look "period correct", if those items were not available, back in the day ?

I'm not understanding the logic here.

Example, in CDPC for 1947, how is dual exhaust able to look "period correct", if dual exhaust was not available ?

Please clarify.

Thanks.

I have been driving my 1951 Chevrolet for over 50 years with a 216 engine. You can't ask more out of an engine that has been that reliable and trustworthy for over 50 years!

Stay with the 216 engine!

Back in the day when they were daily drivers, I have had both 216's and 235's. The hydraulic lifter 235's were a little quieter and had a little more power but as far as reliability I don't think there was much difference. Not enough difference to change an original engine out for a slightly more modern one. If in good condition either one will work just fine, if they are worn out they will both cause problems.

Uncle Ed I

But here is the rub.

Pros:

a. The 235 is easier to repair in the bottom end. Just slip in new inserts.

b. The 235 will enable you to raise your thumb whilst you are passing a 216. Priceless!

c. The 236 will give off more rumble. Well, you will think so anyway. That's real good.

Cons:

a. There will be a challenge to install in the car. Not much but just enough to send you to He-- for your cussin if nothing else.

b. Using a 235 insert engine with hydraulic lifters and the quietness attained will take away the sense of adventure that is present whenst tooling down the road. With the 216 and you are always primed with adventure and excitement waiting to hear it come all to pieces in the most remote area of the planet. I've had a 216 blow up on me twice. My buddy's 48 cabriolet back in 53 and my own 41 coupe a few years ago.

I will never be able to rest comfortably whilst driving with my butt on the front edge of the seat expecting for the rackety old 216 to explode at any moment. Gene may have confidence in them but I don't. I figure one should have a contingency plan to recover the vehicle anytime one ventures out with a 216. One must stay close to home.

I ran a 235 in the project car before I started restoration. A 41 216 is going back in only to effect 100 percent originality. Nothing more. I drove the 236 all across the country NC to Pheonix, AZ (Big Richie towed it to Denver) then to western WY and then back to NC, then to Erie, PA and back to NC. No sense of adventure owing to worriment about the reliability of the engine at all. I didn't worry about the speed. I stayed right up there with interstate traffic. You can never have piece of mind with a 216. I never exceed the sweet spot of indicated 40 mph around town and 45 out in the country. The two dolly is always ready to go. Just my two cents worth.

I recommend a 235/261 if you're going to drive a lot or take the missus along, but a 216 trumps all when returning the car to originality.

Charlie

The only two engines that have had rod problems were a 1956 235 and a 1957 235. One was recently rebuilt and the other a relatively low mileage. So if you want to rely on anecdotal experience don't dare put one in your car. Otherwise do as you wish because your experience may not mimic mine.

When new or PROPERLY OVERHAULED a 216 can take quite a beating.
I have never had a problem when I was a young rodder or on my vintage cars (which have been driven all over the country).

Anyone, please.

Is it better to begin a new thread on my judging question ?

Yes you will lose points if the judge is knowledgeable and notices the differences between the original engine and replacement. Not all judges are well informed but plenty are! If not in class judging it won't matter.

Thank you.

So, if I understand ...... in class judging, points are deducted, but in Drivers Participation Class, points are not deducted because car is "not judged" ? Am I now correct ?

I think he's got it.

Never said I was bright. Problem is, no one else ever said I was bright, either.

You folks are the best. Through this post I have decided to go for a 261 - then a 235 - then rebuild my 216 - then that I am not really concerned about judging - then that I will probably buy the 216 that my friend has and install that and keep the original 216 and live happily ever after. Thank you.

Just remember that the brightest lights take the most power, dim the greatest and the fastest. A dimmer light takes less power and lasts longer.

Ranger,
Many of us have learned that part of the enjoyment is preserving history and trying to keep these old Chevys functional as well as looking as correct as we can. We also pay more attention to maintaining and servicing these old cars as we know they are not just start 'em up and drive 'em vehicles. Doesn't help your sense of accomplishment to "upgrade" with more modern stuff so you can get more lazy.

Good decision. Keep it original. I have run my 216 for hours on end (Navy transfer cross country runs) at 75 mph with a 4:11 rearend. 'course it sounds like you are sitting in a corn sheller at that speed (I finally sawed two of the fan blades off to reduce the noise. That made a big difference and the car did not overheat in town). When I last overhauled it at 398,000 miles I was still running the original mains and rods (no shims) and the rods were just starting to kkk-nock when cold but OK when warmed up. I did run a '54 PG 235 for about a year while the 216 was being overhauled and the only difference I could tell was that I never had to take it out of high gear unless I was starting off up-hill.

For those that think old cars get good gas milage, think again. I got 12-13 miles per gallon when running at 70-75 mph. At times when running long uphills out around the Rockies, I was obliged to ease the choke out slightly to help maintain speed.

These are some of the maintenance stats I developed over more than 350,000 miles.

1000 miles - Lube & oil change
12000 - 15000 miles - Points, Rotor and Plugs
15000 - 20000 miles - New tires (depends on brand)
35000 - 40000 miles - Valve grind
70000 - 100000 miles - Overhaul (rings, valve grind, adjust mains and rods)

I think that Chevygene can confirm that the stats are about the norm for a 216.

Mike,

This is the way I look at a 216:

a. 1000 miles. Try to find the source of the ever increasing noise.
b. 12000-15000. Found the noise. It was the engine.
c. 15000-20000. Engine is louder. Hard to ignore.
d. 35000 - 40000. Whilst the engine is running, can't hear the radio without it being turned wide open.
e. 70000 - 100000. Can now hear a loud cacophony of noises emitting from every moving part in the engine. All at once. Intolerable noise. Can't sneak into the driveway late at night anymore. Too far to coast. Wishing I'd bought a Frod or a Pilgram. Seriously looking for a 235 or 261.

Charlie

YOU GUYS ARE TOOOOOO MUCH.

Thanks for all the advice.

Happy New Year!

RangerArt

Mike,
I agree with you 100%. The 216 was as good as and better than most engines in the 1937-1952 time spread. Getting the most ot of them does take some care and knowledge. They would not have sold almost a million of new Chevrolets a year if the engine didn't hold-up. Also it is probably the most misunder stood engine
.
We should be giving good advise for proper care and maintance on this chat site rather than cutting them down.

In the first Mexican Road race in 1950 every Chevrolet entered finished. The only make to do so.....Also in 1953 they made a low priced car division and a 1953 (PG) finished first.

I think that too many people listen to the guys in the machine shops or drag racers (both track and street). The majority of them have never even driven a babbitt pounder but have heard stories about how they don't hold up. Just like the water going through the radiator myth they all believe what they have been told or figured out for themselves. BS still stinks even if it is verbal.

BTW they are the ones that insist on setting up the babbitt engine bearings at 0.002-0.003" and then wonder why they make noise and leak. If you set up a race engine to .001" you will spin bearings. Will Too! Also set up old cast iron engines with aluminum pistons with .002 gap and then wonder why they lock up or are hard to start when hot.

Ahhhh, now I feel the comfort.

Being a "dim lit" or a "dim wit" will add to my years.

Chippers right!! It's working for me!!

I'll chime in here. The OP is a good man for keeping the 216 around just in case he rebuilds it later or wants to go back to stock. Most folks nowadays would just haul it to their local scrapyard and get a few bucks for it. Thank you for thinking about this.

Sure, a lot of these old motors need TLC, bearings adjusted, rings, and seals. The fun part (to some) is the challenge of keeping one of these beasts running as good as it can in its original form. If you haven't torn into one, don't be afraid! Sure you could pull the motor and do a 235 swap to keep you rolling...but I'd tear into the 216 and learn how to overhaul it. Throw it in and see if you did things right. If not, it needed work anyway and you have a backup engine to keep you rolling.

Chipper's comments on the hot rodders is so true. A lot of folks think these motors are 'junk' but haven't driven one or wrenched on one more than a few minutes to get it off a trailer and into their shop. They won't do a burnout (unless its raining) or speed down the interstate at 75 but they will get you down the road a piece at a safe speed for the rest of the car's systems (think brakes).

I've known a few folks who have un-stuck these old Stovebolts with ATF or diesel fuel and thrown them back into a car and buzzed around for years without a problem. Gene hit it on the head, they're tough as nails. Throw some rings and check things out and slap it back together and you'll have a fresh motor with another 60+ years left in it. Just don't expect the rear main seal to remain dry...

Well, let me see now. Speaking of 216 engines, Gene said that we should be giving more advice on care and maintenance rather than cutting them down. I agree. My posts about the 216 were in jest. I would hope that it was so far fetched that anyone could it for what it is. Dang!

Okay, I owe you all a serious note. The Chevrolet six has been around for a long time. When was it introduced" About 29 or so. No matter, it has been basically unchanged until ... when. Don't know the answer to that. But if anything ever lived to reach perfection it was the Chevrolet overhead valve six. After the 1941 Victory Six the improvements were merely twecks and modest improvements of a merely perfect engine.

The 216 would take a beating and keep on ticking. Even if the specs in the internals were to widen and slap around some, it would still hold together and bring you home. There was no tougher engine produced at the time.

My father was a mechanic back in the 40 and 50s and I never heard him bad-mouth a 216. He got on me for driving a recently acquired 216 for about 200 miles with almost no oil touching the dip-stick. Didn't seem to do any harm. I put oil in it and continued to drive it back and forth to and from college for almost a year. I ran it at about 50-55 mph. No problems at all.

So here's a testimonial for the 216. I would rather have a properly maintained 216
than any other engine I can think of. I can fix one beside the road and keep on going. Kind of like the Joads and that old Hudson in the Grapes of Wrath. If I were to take a trip across the country in my present coupe, I would take it easy on it but not worry one bit as to whether it would make it. Even as noisy as it presently is. It indeed needs some care and attention but it's a tough old critter.

So enough of me badmouthing the 216 lest someone take me serious.

Charlie

to del

As I mentioned somewhere my first car when I was 17 was a 1947 Chevrolet 2 door with the 216. I did not know anything about a 216 then. I just drove the thing and didn't even think about it failing. Drove it back and forth from Anoka to Minnepolis every day while going to college and then back to work at McGranes Super Valu in Anoka.

My Dad bought it for me for $175.00. Would get parts and tires for it out by Champlin on 169 at one of the many junk yards. Could get anything you needed cheap or free.

I never ever thought about how fast you should drive it. I just drove it as fast as conditions allowed. Sold it and moved on to a 55 Ford Customline.

Sure wish I had my cars from those days. 47 Chevrolet - 55 Ford Customline - 49 Mecury 2 door - 58 Chevrolet Impala Convertible with the 348 and 3 two barrels - 65 Chevrolet Impala and then a 68 Ford Torino. About that time in my life I started growing up. What a mistake that was.

All this being stated so very well by rangerart71, ...... the secret to longevity is NOT to grow up, not ever.