Reproduction Parts for 1916-1964 Chevrolet Passenger Cars & 1918-1987 Chevrolet & GMC Trucks


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#313419 07/19/14 09:31 PM
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The 51st Central Meet just finished this evening. If I counted correctly there were 73 vehicles on the judging field. 23 of those were Do Not Judge. What is happening?


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I have spoken with a number of people at the 51st Central Meet. There are a lot of VCCA members who just do not believe that the accumulation of more trophies, awards, etc. is someone that they are interested in doing. Many members just want to drive and enjoy their cars and trucks.

dtm


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That makes it easier for the new folks to get a trophy.


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I think both of you are seeing it as it is. Besides the 23 do not Judge there were several Driver's Participation vehicles. I also think there was only one second place award.


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I have boxes of car show awards in the attic. They just collect dust while the memories of the meets and people we met are still cherished.


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That's unfortunate for a Central Meet. I happen to enjoy showing a vehicle.I'd bet most of those saying they just want to drive their old Chevy's are pretty old themselves.
I hope VCCA doesn't eliminate class judging down the road.

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I think if we added more touring to the Central Meet more of the older members would come back.


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I don't see why they couldn't have two tours and a show day. It also adds more value to the wives experiences as well. It seems like a lot of set-up for a 3 hr judging process (The days before the show) when most people have the car clean at home, and just need to get it on the show field. The extra day should be after the judging, so we can enjoy the ride for two days...


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The two days of tours and one day for car show has worked well for the Middle West Meets in recent years.

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Do they do the judging first and then the touring? Give us an example of the schedule you use. Thanks.


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The 38th Middle West Meet in Colorado Springs had the Pikes Peak Tour on Tuesday, the judged show Wednesday, and the Cripple Creek and Victor Mining Districts tour on Thursday, with some 12 on-your-own tour destinations available any time.

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Just some of my thoughts on this,

I don't know if I agree with this:

Originally Posted by the toolman
There are a lot of VCCA members who just do not believe that the accumulation of more trophies, awards, etc. is someone that they are interested in doing. Many members just want to drive and enjoy their cars and trucks.

dtm

If our competing organizations are any indicator, the 1000 point cars are still out there just as much as they were a few years ago. People are still interested in judging, the award just has to have meaning. To know the cars are out there, all we need to do is look at other organizations who still do promote restoration and preservation (quite unlike us nowadays). The latest issue of the AACA magazine has few Chevrolet's profiled. We also see NCRS not having a problem, and every year the auction houses push across tons of fresh restorations. You can all say what you want about folks not wanting judging, but nobody is going to either invest at a minimum a 50K in a car without hitting the major accomplishments.

The lack of interest in judging seems more of a VCCA problem instead of a hobby-wide problem. I honestly attribute most of this to what many perceive as the watering down of class judging which we've all seen in recent years. I was a team captain at the area 11 meet this past weekend, and there were a handful of cars with ovals issued within the last 2-3 years that couldn't even break 900 points. I even had an owner directly say to me: "Wow, you guys really look at these things". This is an owner who served as a VCCA Chief Judge at the last meet in our area. Either, there is minimal direction to the Chief's or I for once am missing the point.

I am not slamming these cars or the owners, in fact, they looked like really fun derivable cars, however, when the owner who went the extra dollar to restore his car to factory condition receives the same oval as a someone who just keeps his car on the road as driver, whats the incentive to the guy who just completed a frame off. I know we want to make everyone feel welcome, but thats why we have CDCP. This is probably the result of years of anti-trailer-car sentiment which is felt on the show field.

I was always taught with judging, we are not hurting the lesser car, we are awarding the car whom went the further distance to restore his car to factory condition.

I've also said it before, but the meet schedule precludes allot of people from participating. We have long shifted from the era when the VCCA meet was the family vacation. With class judging on a Wednesday. I would need to use 3 days of vacation. This a new concept though since for years, judging was always on a Saturday (at least it was in the northeast). This allowed most folks who could only make the judged component of the meet, to take off on Friday and still participate for three days. The guys with fresh restorations and not yet retired cannot not take a week off from work to participate when other organizations accommodate their lifestyle.

In summary, the cars are still out there, we're just not trying the right way to attract them. Hopefully the region that hosts the Central Meet next year will dedicate a part of the field to personalized vehicles and another part of the field to GMC so the guys can display their tow vehicles as well as show cars and we'll be back up to 150 cars. Hmm, now the logic of the voting authority makes sense!!!



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Very well stated Nigel.I agree with you. I couldn't make the just completed Cent Meet this year because I couldn't take multiple days off from work during the week.

I must also be one of a very few members that enjoy showing and judging more than touring.

Oh well.

Jim








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I see no reason why we can't have judging on Saturday morning and give out the awards Saturday evening at the banquet. Other clubs do it.

I took two cars to the Central Meet this year because it was two miles from home. I did not have either of them judged. I parked them and visited with friends and looked at other cars as well as visiting with spectators about our 31. I saw old friends that don't go on tours.



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I know in the Central Area there has been extensive discussion regarding the scheduling of activities during the Meet. I have been involved in the planning, the conducting and the judging. Not everyone has the same opinion!

There is one group that says that judging has to be performed before any of the scheduled tours because owners will not participate on the tours since they will be exposing their "clean" cars to the elements that could affect judging of their cars; therefore, this group insists on judging early in the Meet. I know it is said that "dirt" gotten on the way to a Meet or during the Meet is not to effect judging; that's a judgment call.

I have been a Chief Judge and know the effort it takes to move from the judging field to presenting the awards at the Awards Banquet! Doing it the same day is extremely difficult. It has become the norm to have a photo PowerPoint presentation with the presentation of the awards at the Banquet; doing this by a non-professional or semi-knowledgeable PowerPoint person is time consuming if everything flows smoothly and we all know there is always a problem. Assembly of the trophies/awards is also time consuming. Doing judging and awards on the same day is not something I will ever do again!

Other chat threads have discussed the movement from judging to touring. The Central Area has taken pride to include both in the Central Meets. The sponsoring region takes much effort to produce a good meaningful tour as part of the Meet and wants as many Meet participants as they can get on the tours. Tours are the way to showcase our Vintage Chevrolets to the public; Vintage Chevrolets that remain in their trailer can be viewed well.

Not everyone can be satisfied because we each have our own opinions of what is important.

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36dlc #313818 07/24/14 09:35 AM
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Just goes to show you can't make everyone happy.
Those that are not happy should take on the responsibilty and run a meet and see how difficult it can be.


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As is usually the case, there tends to be a disconnect from geographic area to geographic area, and that's what makes a National organization like ours so special.

There will always be a judging faction and touring faction within this great hobby of ours. And like the ebb and flow of the tide, it always changes. Right now I guess we are in a touring cycle.

I have also been to meets hosted by other organizations which judge a greater volume of cars, (+2000) and the banquet is about 6 hours after the cars are released. I too have been involved in many capacities as a member of the host region for multi-day meets. (1997 Eastern, 2003, Atlantic Northeast, and so forth) As well as many one-day National judging only meets. It is stressful and time-consuming, but it can be done. We have chosen to host a banquet on the same day as the judging and it worked out perfectly. The key is to have solid people underneath. If you shoot me a PM, I'd be happy to share ideas of what has worked and what hasn't.

Judging is supposed to be dynamic, however, it also exists to reward the better restored and better maintained car. The Judging Manual is quite explicit in regards to meet generated road dirt. "Vehicles driven to meets will provably have some recent evidence that they drove to the meet...Judges are not to consider this "road dirt" when deducting points. Recent evidence of driving the vehicle is different from a vehicle with five to ten years of grease, rust and dirt that has accumulated on a vehicle".

I can drive my car any-time I want. I am not as lucky as to have class judging whenever I want. So when I go to a meet, I'll forgo the tours, just to have the opportunity to view the meet. As a member, on tours generally its the same cars year-in and year-out that are nothing more than touring-cars. I love to see the frame-off, every bolt cleaned, restoration. Yes, that car may sit in the trailer the entire meet, but wouldn't you do the same? Its easy to say I wouldn't, until been faced with having to mar your 100K master piece.

Like Jim, we are not able to get a week off in the middle of the summer to be able to participate in class judging.

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I totally agree that judged shows should happen on a weekend day and not during the week, if possible.

As an organization that needs/wants to get new folks involved, we should take into consideration the schedule of the new folks.

If we want to attract retirees and older folks, keep the meets in the middle of the week.

If we want to attract anyone under 60 into the club, our events need to take place when those folks can make it, namely NOT in the middle of the week.

From another angle, if we want to use the judged shows to showcase our beautiful cars to the general public as a PR move for the club, more spectators will come to our shows if the shows are scheduled on a weekend.

I hope the planners for the 2016 National meet are following this thread.

My 2 cents.

Thanks, Dean


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Dean,

Your right. Its like going to a golf course and expecting to find the course pro out on the course on a Thursday. Instead, mid-week its all the average B+ players. Sure there may be 1 or 2, good ones that called in, but all the best golfers are usually out there on a Saturday morning at sun-rise.

By showcasing the beautifully restored cars our members have, we are advertising what we were all about. A haven for the purists, We were a group whom were dedicated to preservation and restoration. By showcasing the touring cars we have, we are nothing more than a private cruise night. There are really nice touring cars out there, but we also need to preserve our automotive history. 20 years form now, the only vintage chevrolet we'll know will have Gates Belts and Hoses and radial tires because we all know how unsafe they are (Guess DOT and the Federal Highway Administration didn't get the results from that study) I know there is the touring/show car divide. We've all seen the sour-puss expressions as soon as the unexpected box-rolls in and off rolls a concours restoration, but we need to welcome those owners with capable qualified class judging on a Saturday morning when they get a day from work to be there.

If the planners for 2016 are following the needs of the club, they would have chosen a location not as remote as Lake Tahoe. When I go skiing its a pain to get there from the east coast, let alone driving there for a VCCA event. But then again, to drive it with the car and trailer, we would need to take off 3 weeks from work in the middle of the Summer (and likely set aside about 2K for fuel, sorry honey, we'll go to Europe next year) But either way I look at it, none of that would be a problem since since from I know goes on, most of the rooms at the host hotel have likely already been put on hold for the authorities inner circle. We would all probably be staying at the next nearest hotels in Reno a few hundred miles away. Hey who knows, maybe we could have our own meet within a meet complete with class judging on Saturday. Who's in!!

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Alot of the complaints are aimed at the old guys. Let me remind you it was these old guys that laid the ground work of this club. I was 25 when I joined VCCA. 28 when I started the first Region. 29 when we hosted the First Central Meet. We were not always old. I believe for the most part it is the younger members making all the changes.

For several years I used all of my vacation for VCCA and I have a good wife that went along. We also took our two boys to every meet.

If you want things your way get involved. I don't like some of the changes but I am tired.


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When I go to a meet or tour it is for MY enjoyment and not to please or attract the general public. If a recruitment effort is the main focus of an event then it should be so noted prior to that event. I think any time our old chevies are taken out we are promoting the hobby and our club. At the anniversary meet in Springfield Il. one days tour included visiting some historic Lincoln sites. We were given specific instructions for parking, but no advance notice that our cars would be on display while we visited the places of interest. I don't think anyone had any objections of doing so, however we may have differently prepared our cars had we known that we were going to be on display. I do agree that if you are going to have a show and are looking to draw the largest crowd possible then a weekend day is best for both the public and the members. I do not believe however that an anniversary meets main objective should be for the publics benefit, but rather for the enjoyment of the club members. Just as Back Roads did a lot of my vacation time was used for club events and meets and if its my vacation my main purpose is to enjoy myself.


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Steve great point.
Back Roads,I don't think anybody is calling out the old guys specifically.I think it's one or two of the traditions or past practices that some are reluctant to adjust.

FWIW-I do appreciate and respect the history and the longtime senior members of the VCCA.I also do like the way Central Meets have held the show judging in high priority.

Why couldn't we start a meet on Friday,judge Sat then tour Sun,awards Sun nite?I would enjoy Passport Touring alot more if judging was completed.Just my .02 cents.

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The VMCCA does not have car shows. They have tours and set aside time for judging. We took our 31 to a Western National Tour in Estes Park, Colorado. We toured four days in the Rocky Mountains before judging. VMCCA is THE TOURING CLUB.


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Originally Posted by Back Roads
The VMCCA does not have car shows. They have tours and set aside time for judging. We took our 31 to a Western National Tour in Estes Park, Colorado. We toured four days in the Rocky Mountains before judging. VMCCA is THE TOURING CLUB.

That's cool touring is your thing.More power to you. Not a high priority at this point in my life in the car hobby. Jim

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I stopped by after work a couple days during the show and it was all over with by the time I got there,I wish it could of happened on a weekend.


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