VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc 1935 Std brakes not up to scratch..

Hi there,
Finally I have the 35 on the road after 18 years of restoration. My main concern is the brakes.Every thing is new and lubricated and adjusted correctly according to the workshop manual. I followed the adjustment procedure step by step.
I have now done this several times with NO improvement in the braking efficiency!
I almost have to stand on the brake pedal to slow the car down, I have been told that one can make the brakes LOCK up, if adjusted properly, but alas not on my car.
It getting to the point that I almost dread taking the car out.
Were these cars know for their Poor braking systems?

Peter

If you install hard brake linings you have to stand on the brakes to stop. Install high friction woven linings and pad the dash.

Mechanical brakes require soft woven linings for the best stopping capabilites.

Chip is correct. You need soft linings all way around. The parking brake can use any material and is not critical.

Using the woven linings will def make the brakes better. As was said in another posting, upgrading to more modern ways is not all ways better for the application.

Also, when testing brakes it is hard to duplicate an emergency - got to stop now situation.

I questioned my brakes on my 48 , until I needed to stop quickly ! I slid all four wheels and stopped very quickly. Avoided a nice buck !!! Or did he avoid me.........

hi there,
thank you all for the advice, when I had the shoes relined many years ago , I did ask for soft linings, but given the poor performance that I am experiencing, I now wonder and question just what I was given?
I suppose that all I can do now is to strip all the shoes of, have them definitely lined with soft linings again and see what happens?
From memory I think that the rear drums are attached to the half shaft and that to remove them I need to undo a screw in the diff?

Peter

Did it stop better years ago? Might want to scuff the linings.glaze build up Bill

I will never know because this is the first time that the car has been driven and using its brakes.
I phoned the local brake place and explained the situation and learn that woven high friction linings are a Gold colour in australia and not the gray colour that mine are, so that is definitely the problem.
I was told that they are very expensive and they could not give me a price until I bring them in and they send them to the third party that does brake shoe re-linings. A bit like an egg in the basket with a hole in it? I guess they could see me coming ...So here we go again $$$$

Peter

The lining is the same as used on industrial equipment so you may want to check with a shop that does that type of work in addition to automotive brakes.

I would bet if you were to pull the drums and inspect the linings today only about 50% of the lining is contacting the drum surface. With either type of lining material the brakes should work better than that.

Peter
Check with some of the industrial machinery shops.
Some time ago I worked for a "Better Brakes" agent and can remember getting woven lining material in 20ft roll then cutting and drilling to suit shoes and bands, wasnt a job I relished.
Tony

today I did a bit of sleuthing....
after doing a Google, and 2 hours later, found this company in south Australia :-

http://www.powerbrakes.com.au/index...=2147259961&currentContent=457467341

and spoke to a chap called Allen.
He was very helpful and forthcoming with ideas and useful information regarding bonded brake shoes.
He understood my problem and suggested that a shoe lining material 3195 be used for steel drums. He said that this is just the right material for that application.
So today I removed all the drums, a big job that took all afternoon.
to remove the rear drums I had to remove the diff cover, unscrew the bolt, remove the pin, push the drums into the center and grasp the C washers an center spacer......yes just to remove the rear drums intact with the 2 half shafts........phew

the drums are only pressed steel and not very thick , like cast iron drums.

Question: Do I dare attempt to have these skimmed?
and if I did go own that path, how would I get the rear drums skimmed , they are attached to the axle shafts?

I will pack the shoes and post to south Australia for relining, estimated at $300 for 4 sets, 8 shoes........

Peter

Peter,

Good luck.

I do think that Gene was more than likely right. The shoes had not had time to fully seat to the drum surfaces. This is natural. Some have their shoes surfaced so that the seat immediately. I merely take it easy for a while and ride the brakes a little so that it helps seat them sooner.

The positive side of the shoes you have is that they will likely last longer. The woven kind will probably not last as long. I'm no expert on the woven material. This is merely what I think.

I didn't know that you had to pull the axles on a 35 to change the linings, mercy!

Charlie

You may want to follow up on Chevnut's post regarding shoe contact on the drum. Before you send the shoes off inspect the lining for wear contact. If you have only 50% contact now then you need to determine why so the new lining will not have the same contact and thus not the best braking. However if it shows 90% or better then you can eliminate that as a future problem. If your drums are worn they can be resurfaced by grinding or PROPER turning but the thinner the drum gets then the chances of vibration noise increases.

I've had the "soft" woven lining on my 32 for 14 years and 12,000 miles and they hardly show any signs of wear. I am sure at the present rate I will never have to change them due to wear.

Note that the drums are thin pressed steel and can not be turned on a drum lathe. First they are already too thin and should not be made thnner and would have to be ground to be resurfaced.

thanks all for the additional information:

On checking the surface area of the linings, the rear ones had only 50% contact, the front ones were a lot better. The drums are lightly scored and I expected that anyway on a 70 year old part that has had lots of use. I did not know about "grinding" the drums, sounds like a good idea and worth a try, bearing in mind as to how thin pressed steel drums are, as compared to cast iron ones. Now the question is where to find a competent workshop to carry out this work with a bit of finesse and care?
Any ideas you Aussies out there in the bush? Tony or Ron?

Peter

I used to work for a company that had a brake drum grinder but they have since closed down. The next company I worked for I think had a similar lathe but not sure about the grinder attachment, I can ask though.
Do you know what the original factory diameter was as that will be a determining factor as to suitability of grinding, remaining thickness will be a problem.
Tony

Hi Tony,
I measured them all and they were 8 inches , by the look of them they seem to be original and scored, doubt if they have ever had any attention over the years?
BTW, I have never seen NOS ever advertized, drums that is...

Is there any thing else that can be done to clean up the pressed drums if grinding is not available?

Do you mean 8" on tape measure or a micrometer. .060" is as far oversize as I would go with a cast drum and a pressed steel no more the .030" over original.
Tony

Hi Peter,
My 35 tourer is now registered. Goes well and stops great. I think I have a set of the linings you need if you want them,
Ron.

hi there Ron,
Thank you for the offer, but I have already sent my shoes to the place in SA for relining and await there return with anticipation?
I will give you a call during the following week in the evening and discus the problems.
Was that the tourer that I saw last time I called in, the brown one? Glad that it is now on the road, how about a pic or two on here of the beast?

Peter

I just measured with a steel ruler and a square as best I could and inches and the metric equivalent came up the same. No thousands of an inch measurements possible in my shed!

Peter

There is a special micrometer for measuring brake drums on the lining wear area that not many workshops have. If there is a ridge to the ling area it would be best to get an exact measurement.
Tony