VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions 1939 Cabriolet

As far as I know, there were not any '39 Chevrolet convertibles manufactured in Canada, just in Australia. I think Jack has explained the relationship between Holden and Chevrolet's in 1939, as he says similar relationship as between Fisher Body and Chevrolet. I think a valuable aspect to this discussion is that it makes clear that while GM had a line of Chevrolet products designed to sell in the USA market for '39 (or for any year for that matter), its branch plants elsewhere internationally were catering to the often unique market in their country.

Thus for example, in Canada, where fender-benders were possibly more common due to more snow, longer winters etc, GM factories added an extra front fender brace in '31. In Europe, '31 Coach's were sometimes sold with a rear door like a Sedan Delivery.

The Aussies, where a warmer climate made convertibles more desireable certainly than in Canada, their marketing people decided a convertible was essential to their line of models to offer, and so went to great efort and very successfully manufactured a '39 Chevrolet Roadster (and a Pontiac, and a Oldsmobile, see photo at left) using components available from the 38/39 parts inventory with a few adjustments.

Finally, I assume if one wanted one, one could have bought one of these in the USA at the time, subject to the usual ship/tax/duty, etc implications. It is important we know that from early on Chevrolets, were not only designed, manufactured and marketed in U.S.A., but around the world to meet the varying wishes of Chevrolet's international following.

At least two 1939 Pontiac roadsters exist. A flat black one sold in Brisbane in the last 12 months. As for the Oldsmobile I am sceptical about its orinallity. Business roadsters were usually only available on the Standard Chevrolet line. Masters to my knowledge were only available with the Dickey or rumble seat. The Olds may have been specially ordered but I think more than likely the restorer had access to a Standard Chevrolet body.

Here's what Jack sent us...

The firewall on that car is not the same as a Chevrolet firewall. But if they were producing sports roadsters they could also produced business roadsters at the same time. Did you see the car at Wayne Barbours in Brisbane?

All 1939 Chevrolet roadsters were Standards whether they were a sports roadster or a business roadster. ( although I have a GM_H pre release picture of a 1939 roadster which I believe is a Master deluxe Roadster)

So to recap in answering original question, GM of America did not manufacture a Chevrolet Convertible (or Cabriolet, or Roadster what ever term one prefers) in the USA for sale in 1939, due to re-tooling decisions '38-'40.

GM-Australia did produce Chevrolet Convertibles (Roadsters) in 1939, with both a Sport Roadster (rumble/dickie seat) and Business Roadster (regular trunk). The bodies for these cars were built by the Holden Body Company (in similar manner to Fisher Body in USA), using the general design common to all '39 Standard Chevrolets, but modified to accept doors without roll up windows(side curtains), a custom made folding roadster top and a few other minor adjustments. Production of these Australian made '39 Convertibles is reported to have been about 200 total, including 88 sport roadsters, and about 10% survive, 20-25 cars. (credit Jack31Rdstr).

GM Australia also produced similar styled '39 Oldsmobile Roadsters (only 10 built?) and '39 Pontiac Roadsters (# unknown but only a few), using similar body style from Holden, but with Olds and Pontiac Rolling Chassis, and their own unique front grillwork and other identifying features, etc.

My thoughts on the Olds roadster were correct . Checked with a friend in Adelaide who knew the cars builder. Seems his original Olds body was stolen when the car was dismantled and as he had a Chevrolet standard roadster body he fitted that. To fit an Olds firewall would only require unpicking the Chev one and fitting the one from the Olds. I dont buy the story about the body being stolen. About 1o% survival rate seems to be about right for prewar Holden bodied cars. Although I have never seen a 1939 master roadster it is possible some were made as the coupe utility was also listed as standard only but some masters were produced and at least one survives in South Australia. I dont think Wayne Barber ever owned the black Pontiac roadster. It sold at auction as part of a deceased estate along with a 1937 Pontiac coupe.

Thank for the updated information on the Olds. The you tube clip of the oldsmobile roadster (attached above) was recorded at Waynes property at QLD .
I have seen a 1939 Master Deluxe Utility in my suburb here in Sydney. A rodder had got to , and then gave up and started to part it out again. I made him an offer , which he then wanted more for , and then listed it cheaper than my offer , and it didn't sell. Think it has gone to someone else now.

Thanks to all the replies, I think I have a good handle on the answer to the question now: Let's see:

a. Chevrolet did not produce any 1939 Chevrolet convertibles (et al) in the USA.

b. Chevrolet did not produce any 1939 Chevrolet Convertibles in Australia, either.

c. GM did produce a 1939 convertible in Australia.

d. In 1939 GM in Australia used a fire-wall plate that said "Chevrolet." This, I assume, was a mere matter of convenience to GM but not Chevrolet.

e. The GM produced 1939 convertible got its data fire-wall plate depending on whether the rolling stock chassis was Chevrolet, Pontiac or Oldsmobile.

f. The Australian/GM produced 1939 "Chevrolet" convertible had side curtains and no well for the top.

g. To disinuinsh the USA 1939 Chevrolet from the GM 1939 Convertible everyone in the know (old car enthusiasts who don't want to confuse anyone) uses the body manufacture's name "Holden" for the Australian model. That way, no one gets confused and may think that USA Chevrolet produced a 1939 convertible. Which it did not. Any where in the world. But GM did. In Australia. In order to satisfy a few folk who wanted the option of having the top down (whatever).

How's that?

Charlie

BTW: Next time I have an opportunity to enlighten someone on the lack of 1939 Chevrolet convertibles, I'll first ask them if they like to join me for sit-down lunch. Or maybe not. Mercy!

Regarding points a&b, using the phrase "Chevrolet did not produce....." is perhaps part of the challenge in this conundrum. General Motors was the producer of all these cars, and it had many divisions across the USA and Internationally assembling cars. So perhaps (a) could read "The Chevrolet Division of GM of America did not produce any 1939 convertibles". And (b) then could read "GM of Australia produced 1939 Chevrolet convertibles".

By now I figure Charlie (whom I do not know) is being humourously provocative and thats just great, just as long as everyone agrees. I'd hate to think he believes every Cheverolet not made in the Great U.S.of A. is really a sheep in wolf's clothing!! Baaaa! (an allusion to my fine friends down-under, for whom sheep form an important industry).

Well, in any case Chevrolet did not produce any "real" convertible anywhere in 1939.

I think the problem stems from the folks down under merely wanting a more recognizable marquee for their cars than "GM". A GM car was all that it was. Just an after thought by the folks down there that couldn't let it alone. Started clamoring for a rag-top (et al).

It wasn't a Chevrolet because it was not in regular production by Chevrolet in the USA.

Let's just keep calling it a "Holden." It's confusing otherwise. Oh, I do wish we could call it a Chevrolet but that wouldn't be right and you know it. It was, in truth, just a hybrid. Sort of what we call a mule. You know: not a horse and just a bit more, maybe, than a jack-[bleeped].

Charlie

BTW: I was on your side, Gunsmoke, until you falsely accused me of humor. Something that is not allowed here on the Chatter. I've been burned and accused of humor so many times now that I recognize it when I see it. Do too.

BTW2: This is part pay-back for stenciling that stinkin Kangaroo on the nose of my CV2B "Caribou" in Vietnam back in the 60s when we left it unguarded for a bit.

The folding top on all 1939 Chevrolet roadsters folds down into a well behind the seat and below the body line.
I also have a 1939 advertisement for the Chevrolet roadster of 1939 that lists the prices for the roadster, all enclosed coupe, and cabriolet.

Jack,

Now that would be interesting to see. That brochure or advertisement (whatever), that is.

Charlie

How many Chevroolet Roadsters do you have Jack. I see your internet handles include jack31rdstr and jack39rdstr, do you have those or others? Maybe if Charlie does not like calling them Chevrolet '39 Roadsters, we can all agree to call them Jack 39Roadsters!

Charlie also does not refer to anything built either side of 1941 as a Chevrolet either...

I have the 1939 Business roadster , most of a 1920 roadster , and
if i find some rear quarter panels(or end up making them) a 1931 )

https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/galleries/242901/1939_roadster_under_restoratio#comments
2nd link to VCCA PICTURES POST

Charlie , I have emailed you the advertisement ,date 11th July 1939 .

Geez Jack, another can of worms! The July '39 Advertizement (thanks for sending me by email) refers to 3 models, Roadsters Coupes and Cabriolets. A "Business" Roadster(has trunk) and Coupe (aka Sloper) are illustrated with price, but the Cabriolet is priced but not illustrated. Can you shed some light on the '39 "Cabriolet", or was this Aussie for a Dickie Seat Roadster?

Jack,

I saw that ad you emailed me. Interesting. But, proof positive that there was a real 1939 Chevrolet rag-top, et al, is not yet surfaced. A thrown-together critter such as you and Gunsmoke promote is just not convincing enough to make the following statement with an attalic:

In 1939 model year Chevrolet did not produce a convertible (or cabriolet, et al).*

* There were, however, some GM convertibles produced in Australia.

Such a statement as above could not be sufficiently and convincing supported enough to compel a reasonable man, that the convertible produced in Australia was close enough to what Chevrolet would have produced in regular production, to warrant it.

Your ad, while interesting, provides, no provenance. It looked like it was created in a back room somewhere where the more skilled artists may have been working on some fake pound notes. It was an ad that appeared to bend the rules of authenticity. What was the publication? Who entered the ad? There was no link to GM (I could not make out most of the fine printed words) although you and Gunsmoke readily admit that the project to produce that apparition had nothing to do with Chevrolet any where in the world.

Nice try but that dog just will not hunt.

This is just another smoke and mirrors attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of the gullible top-siders. I'm not buying it. It's just like you fun loving Aussie's to try and pull something like this. Is too!

Charlie

BTW: The ad about "Piles" treatment may explain some soreness and bottom irritation driving the thinking that may cause those of you stuck with a Non-Chevrolet 1939, Johnny Cash type convertible (made one piece at a time), may suffer. Now that ad I believe. Mercy!

BTW: Its 10:00 a.m. here. Shouldn't you be in bed a-dreamin' about owning a real Cabriolet?. I941, that is!

I propose a compromise Charlie/Jack. For 1939 only we spell Chevrolet cars made in USA Chefrolets (f as in Fisher Bodied), and for those made in Australia, we spell it Chehrolet (h as in Holden Bodied), and this way no uninformed person will be mislead. Would love to have a beer with you two!

Gunsmoke, General Motors Australia, General Motors Holden's Limited were always ready to Supply what ever the customer wanted. GM-H's whole business thrived because they built what was ordered. So if the customer or Chevrolet Dealer in Melbourne wanted a special order, they would deliver it, after all, they were the people who were moving there products for them.
AS I have previously stated , there are a few 1937 and 1938 roadsters which have the side windows, including a member on Chat here that has a 1937 Sports roadster with side windows.
As to if this advertisement for a 1939 Chevrolet cabriolet is fitted with side windows, or is simply fancy advertising to sell a 1939 Chevrolet sports roadster with button on side curtains and dickey seat, is just going to have to remain one of those things that we will never know. They didn't care in 1939 obviously.

The 1939 roadster doors are welded closed at the opening on the top of the door where the glass would normally fit. The joint was leaded over to seal the top of the door. So fitting sloper doors with special glass and squared off top quarter windows will bolt onto a roadster very easily.

The General Motors Holden's body manufacturing plant In South Australia had the largest Metal press in the southern hemisphere , so were able to build the rear roadster bodies with only a few welds in the outer body panels.

I do know that one 1939 MASTER DELUXE SPORTS ROADSTER was built at least, but none are listed as being built or sold, while the recorded sales were for Standard Business and sports roadsters on I beam front suspensions.

There also was built a 1939 Roadster Utility of which none are recorded as being built as well, and yet I have a picture of the roadster ute in 1939, which has 1939 Chevrolet passenger front and rear fenders.

Looks like COPO was alive in OZ much before it was in the USA.

Here's the real deal, sorta.



This is a American made 39 Cabriolet with roll up windows.
It was custom built by Missouri member Fred Thompson in the 80's
Pictured here on the show field at the Springfield 40th Anniversary meet. Fred used 37-38 parts and the car has good proportions and looks right! Quality workmanship. A very nice car.

Ain't that beautimous!!!

This is a most interesting and informative thread, and many thanks to the contributors. Obviously, General Motors and Chevrolet have been a global enterprise for a century; and also obviously, they have sourced parts and designed products based on the needs of the markets where they operate. Chevrolet Utes come to mind.

This has always been the case, and some products were available in some markets and not others, etc. The same situation is of course still true today. You can buy GM products in Europe that you cannot buy in the US, you can buy GM products in Asia that you cannot buy in Europe; and all possible such combinations of both overlapping and mutually exclusive markets.

Holden of course was a primary body supplier early on, and grew to be much more. Clearly, GM marketed open cars in 1939 on both Chevrolet platforms and sibling brands. Other years in the 1930's also saw tourers/touring cars which were not made available in the US or Canadian markets, as well.

In spite of the seemingly thick-headed remarks that pretend to try to summarize this string occasionally - apparently intended as humor(?) it has clearly and intelligently set out this interesting part of the Chevrolet product history. {Actually, those remarks are rather embarrassing - since the nonsense originated State-side, I offer my apologies to any of our international-based friends if they were offended by it}.

Us Aussies have thick skins so no offence is taken but call us "late for dinner" and it will be a different story. (tongue in cheek)
Tony