VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION VCCA Judging Questions 1956 THRIFTMASTER ENGINE COLOR JUDGING QUESTION

I have recently been corrected by a member on this site about my engine paint color on my 1956 Chevrolet 3100 task force pickup not being correct, he has shown me a piece of liturature that states the engines were grey in color on the thriftmaster motors...

I researched alot before I restored my truck and found that there were alot of different opinions about the correct engine colors on the trucks, I have the correct ID number on my motor(F56X) and when I had my motor boiled before the rebuild...

I found that there was the color of Blue all the way thru, no sign of any Grey paint, so I decided to go with the Bill Hirsh Blue paint....

So my question is: Will I be able to go to a VCCA event and have my Truck Judged with this paint color on my Motor? This is the way my truck came and it was a very original truck when I recieved it, I will post some pics of my motor after it was boiled...

I know from experience on collecting Rupp snowmobiles, that the company did different things to the sleds than what the brochures say..

Did GM follow there manuals and brochures to a T or is everone convinced that gray was the color of the truck only for all the 235 6cyl. years?

Thanks....Rooney3100

I owned two new 56 trucks and the motors were gray.
one was a 3100 the other a 3600.
Al

Yes you can have your truck judged at a VCCA event. You will have a few points deducted if the judges "catch" the wrong engine color. It will be up to you to furnish Chevrolet documentation for anything the judges find incorrect.

Chevrolet never did things like switch engine color during production. The one time they did on the 1957 passenger car 265 engine it was documented in the servie bulletins. The color of the engine identified the engine for the technician for ordering parts and making adjustments.

The color may have faded during the
hot tank" proceedure. The engine may have been rebuilt in the early life of the vehicle and repainted. It was not unusual for these engines to be burning oil at 50,000 miles.

You can check with the technical advisor for youur truck whose name will be listed in the G&D for further facts.

Any accessory or part added a vehicle must be listed in the parts book, accessory book or any other literature published by Chevrolet for that year and model.

The blue engines were used in passenger cars only and had the "Blue Flame" decal on the valve cover.

In 1956 even the 8 cylinder engines used in light duty trucks were painted gray. This is true for 1955-1962 trucks where the light duty 6 and 8 cyl. engines were all gray.

I knew Gene would come on the airwaves to help with this one. I was not sure but my research also said grey. One thing about when we wonder what was original keep in mind that many many years have passed and we don't really know the whole history of a vehicle that we did not buy new. That's why we help each other with the knowledge we have and why HPOCF has been a great asset for all of us to refer to. Thanks Gene!

Gene, what do you mean by a few points deduction? is it enough to not win any award at a VCCA event? Because there is a 98% I won't pull the motor out and repaint it grey....STEVE M

Steve, What is HPOCF?

Factory original cars are certified in the Historical Preservation of Original Chevrolet Features (HPOCF). The have to retain 75% of original appearance in two areas (engine compartment, interior, exterior, chassis) to qualify for an award. Seems at each meet there are more HPOCF vehicles than the past one. Had a whole bunch in Flint.

taskforce56: Are you a VCCA member? If so, your VCCA membership number is not posted in your profile.

Taskforce... What factory was your truck built in? If it's a Canadian build, the engine colour may be different... otherwise I'd go with what these guys have said. We did things a little different up here, and had different paint suppliers to the factories in Canada. Don't read this as me saying blue is right... just that if the truck is a Canadian build more research will need to be done.

Just to throw some fuel on the ever burning engine-color-fire ... GM documentation is confusing or conflicting.

The first year that I found truck engine colors listed in the GM Heritage Center Restoration Packs was 1960. Two descriptions of the 235 engine color were listed:
> Listed as "gray" on PDF p. 166 of 211
> Listed as "blue gray" on PDF p. 167 of 211, p. 168/211, and p. 169/211.
Don't know if that is enough to document your blue engine or if similar info is available for 1956.

FYI - Error(?) in 283 engine color in the 1960 Restoration Pack:
> 283 Trademaster:
Gray engine paint. p. 166/211
but shows Green engine paint p. 180/211
> 283 Taskmaster:
Green engine paint. p. 166/211
but shows Gray engine paint p. 181/211

RE: Pulling your motor to paint it ...

I painted my '54 235 engine without removing it. I'm happy with the results but what a pain. After scrubbing it for days, I would mask for an hour, then paint for a few minutes. Then mask again and repaint spots on the engine or frame that were oversprayed. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
> Masked
> Completed (Filling Station gray engine paint.)

- Lonnie

I sent my information and payment about 3-4 weeks ago and have'nt heard back.....

My truck was built in Oakland California

Thanks for the reply Lonnie, I may try and repaint the motor in the future....I will try and find more documention....

Steve,
You are VCCA member number 048629. Your first G&D magazine should arrive within days. I have taken the liberty of changing your status on ChatII to VCCA member. Welcome to the family. I hope you enjoy your membership as much as I have mine.

Thank You, I will enjoy being a member........ROONEY3100

Loss of points would be very small. The rest of the truck appears to be excellant an would more than make up for the color error.
Note that the fuel filter/pressure thing wouldcause some points to be deducted and a leather boot on the clutch fork also.

The gray paint (also used on 1929-1952 car engines) is refered to as gray and blue/gray.

In 1956 Chevrolet cars with a V-8 had a cranberry red engine and Chevrolet refered to it as orange.....as the 1955 and 1957 engines were orange.

"Loss of points would be very small. The rest of the truck appears to be excellent an would more than make up for the color error."

Gene,

I think I know what you intended to say but still...

It is my understanding that all judged cars start out with a certain amount of points. Points are then deducted owing to faults, discripreincies, omissions, changes, etc as unacceptable deviations from original. After a point is (or points are) deducted then, no matter the lack of other deductions, nothing, no matter how well done, can restore the points for the fault already noted. There are never points added, just deducted.

Now, I wonder if I've got this here judging thing right or am I about to get shot down, yet again. Dang!

Charlie

BTW: I think the above -no adding points- is the reason a basic, "Plain Jane", bottom of the rung car with little or no accessories, will win over a deluxe model with all kinds of accessories that the owner has searched for and paid big bucks to obtain almost every time. It would seem that if points were added for the deluxe model and still more points added for accessories (commensurate with their rarity, quality, etc, it would then help stop this puzzling reality. There is no amount of sympathy, that can be extended to an owner who has restored and accessorized a deluxe model only to have it trumped by a "Plain Jane", to assuage the disappointment he/she may feel. I may be alone on my thinking here. So be it.

Charlie and other,
While it sometimes happens the plane jane cars don't always get judged higher than the over accessorized (if that is a legit word). Seems that the owners of the cars with all those added goodies have enough funds and dedication to have them in top notch condition. The other fact is that despite the fact that judges are supposed to be totally objective the car with the glitzy stuff often gets a subconscious break.

My next to final comment is that the owners should know the rules and procedure (they are readily available to VCCA members) and anticipate the result of adding accessories.

My final comment is if an award is that desired it is far less expensive to go to a trophy store and have one or more made to their liking.

Chipper,

Seems I touched a nerve with the BTW thing. That was unintended. Sorry.

After all, what good would it be to commission your very own trophy? That may have been a pointless comment and of no good except to the simple minded. While I may be on my way to such status, I'm not quite there yet. Getting close, though.

As to the plain Jane thing. I get it. Do too!

Now, what about the points added notion that was postulated by Gene and in the body of the post? Any comment on that?

Charlie

"loss of points would be very small"......yes, all start with 1000 points and some number of poins are deducted for each incorrect item. If 10 points would be deducted for incorrect engine color and all other areas would be perfect the vheical would end up with 990 points whick is a ptetty good score.

Are point deductions proportionate to the error noted. For example would a 38 with a chrome valve cover on a light gray engine receive a greater points deduction that an engine with just a light gray engine?

Yes.

Of course, ALL judging is subjective; but I would agree with Skip's answer.....yes.

Bill.

The amouaant of deduction would depend on the judgement of the judge.

Well, I did what you all asked about coming up with some information reguarding the color paint (BLUE) on my 56 Chevrolet truck 3100 thriftmaster 235 motor, the first response was from the Technical advisor Hulon Mccraw,the second response (2 e-mails) comes straight from GENERAL MOTORS........THANKS STEVE M


Steve:

Sorry to take so long getting back to you but I wanted to be a through as possible therefore I called several of my knowledgeable GM guys about your engine color. All agree that the Gray engine is recognized as being correct and our judges will raise the question about any other color being correct, as they should. However we have had experiences in the past where other color engines were found to be correct. So the short answer to your question is you have two options.

1-Repaint your engine Gray and no question should arise about the correct color.

2-Leave the engine Blue, make yourself a book with all the documentation (photos, block stamping, etc.) you have furnished me as well as this email communication, so when the Team Captain asked if you have any supporting documentation on the color of your engine you can present him your documentation. I did have Joe Vicini contact one of the engineers from the Flint, MI plant and he concurred that it could have left the factory with a Blue engine.

If the Team Captain still questions the authenticity of the engine color ask him to contact the Chief Judge of the event. The decision you have to make is do you want to address this issue every time you show your truck or take the easy way and paint it Gray.

Hope I have answered your question completely and good luck, which every way you choose to go.


Thanks
Hulon


From: smav@charter.net [mailto:smav@charter.net]
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 8:15 AM
To: hcmccraw@morrisbb.net
Subject: 1956 Chevrolet 3100 6cyl engine color







GENERAL MOTORS E-MAILS



I gave them a full description and the serial number of my truck that it was the 6 cylinder engine... (THE FIRST E-MAIL RESPONSE I GOT FROM GENERAL MOTORS)



Service Request:  71-1177011333
Customer Relationship Specialist:  Queen


Dear Steve,


Greetings from the Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center! 


We appreciate you taking the time to call us requesting information on your 1956 Chevrolet vehicle.  We understand that you would like to know the engine or motor color of your vehicle.  Based on our research, the engine color for Chevrolet back in the 1950's was blue and for GMC the engine color was orange.


We hope this information has been helpful to you.  If you still have any questions, simply reply to this message or you can contact me directly at 1-866-790-5600 extension 32736.  You may also call our Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center at 1-800-222-1020 and request for immediate assistance.  Customer Relationship Specialists are available Monday through Saturday from 8:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m., Eastern Time.


Again, thank you for contacting Chevrolet.


Sincerely,


The Chevrolet Consumer Support Team











(THE SECOND E-MAIL REPONSE I GOT FROM GENERAL MOTORS)

I asked them to clarify the first e-mail, it said the chevy's from the 50's were blue, it was to general....


Service Request:  71-1177011333
Customer Relationship Specialist:  Queen


Dear Steve,


Greetings from the Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center! 


This email is regarding your inquiry about the engine or motor color of your vehicle.  The engine color for Chevrolet back in the 1950's was blue and for GMC the engine color was orange.  Every single Chevrolet vehicle made in 1950, 51, 52 up to 59, no matter if it is a truck or a car, the engine color is BLUE


We hope this information has been helpful to you.  If you still have any questions, simply reply to this message or you can contact me directly at 1-866-790-5600 extension 32736.  You may also call our Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center at 1-800-222-1020 and request for immediate assistance.  Customer Relationship Specialists are available Monday through Saturday from 8:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m., Eastern Time.


Again, thank you for contacting Chevrolet.


Sincerely,


The Chevrolet Consumer Support Team


NOT SURE WHAT TO THINK, MAYBE THIS WILL CLARIFY THE PAINT COLORS......THANKS....STEVE M

I would suggest that someone from the VCCA Judging Committee contact the Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center and straighten out this issue. With the VCCA telling people that engines were gray and Chevrolet telling them blue there is a strong potential for some really upset folks.

It is a fact that the vehicle owner often is not present and/or does not know before he (or she) gets their judging sheet back that a deduction was made on engine color (or any other deduction for that matter). Even if present the owner does not have the privileged of seeing the judging sheet to know if a deduction is being made. A note attached to the judging form that there is specific documentation on the front seat might be a good idea if the owner suspects that a deduction might be made.

As I have said or written at least 100 times, I have had point deductions for correct items in VCCA judging. In all cases there were incorrect items that were missed (without deduction) far exceeding the incorrect deduction. No harm no foul is my opinion in those cases.

Engine color history.
1929-1952 all engines were gray, car and truck. Truck engines has Thriftmaster or Loadmaster painted on side of valve cover.
1953 passenger car stick and all truck engines were gray. Power Glide car engine were blue in 1953 and had the Blue Flame decal on the valve cover. Truck engines had the engine type on the valve cover.
1954 all passenger car engines were blue and had the Blue Flame decal. For passenger cars and the same blue was used through to the last 235 engine in 1962. NOTE -Blue Flame is teamed with a blue engine.
1954 trucks continued with the gray engine EXCEPT for the new 261 engine. 1/2 thru 1 1/2 ton trucks had Thriftmaster decal, 2 ton had the load master decal. If a 2 ton was equipped with the new 261 engine it was painted green and had the Jobmaster decal. The engine color and decal helped the mechanic ID the engine.
1955-1962 truck engines folowed the same pattern. As per the 1955 Engineering manual 1/2 thru 1 1/2 ton trucks had gray engines. Had the Triftmaster decal. The 2 ton truck (6000 series)had a heavy duty 235 engine and it was painted green and had the New Heavy Duty Loadmaster decal. The 1955 261 engine was yellow and had a New Jobmaster decal.The base (standard) 8 cylinder engines in 1/2 thru 1 1/2 ton trucks used the same gray color as the 6 cylinder.....and this was true from 1955-1962. (above info from 1955 Engineering and various introductary Info.)
There were several other colors used for the optional/larger truck engines made from 1957 and up. There again the colors helped to ID the engine.
NEVER believe any thing Chevrolet says as to the ancient history. They just do not have the facts.
My info. agrees with Bob Hensels finding and Bob collect truck history for many years.

Gene,
I would hope that someone in an official position on the Judging Committee or other VCCA official would contact Chevrolet and set them straight. Most people will tend to believe Chevrolet versus another organization. They assume that Chevrolet has more accurate records than anyone else. Since I was thrown off the Judging Committee, I don't have the authority.

I am glad that Gene has set the record straight.

Thanks Gene

That is great information Gene! I made a copy of it for reference.

I understand this is an older thread, but feel the need to reply, regarding C.C.S. (Chevrolet Customer Service).

The folks employed at the Chevrolet Customer Service are typically younger folks entering the world of the General, in an entry level position.

My SECRETARY at our Chevrolet dealership, where we were employed, was recruited by the local Chevrolet Zone Office.

She accepted, began working for Chevrolet with the C.C.S. center.

Those new recruits may be the same individuals who are telling one and all that all Chevy 6 cylinder engines are blue.

In all probability, those new recruits were born in 1990 or later.

To be fair, I also heard many older "experts" tell me that all Chevy V8 engines were orange and my Dad's 56 265 was painted wrong color.

Chevrolet literature called the 1957 and up orange engines red which is also misleading.
The 1956 car had the only actual red engine.
Note the original thread was from Dec. 2013.

It must be harder to own a yellow '57 265, you'd hear all kinds of things at shows & meets :)

If I had one I would carry the Service News with me noting the color and when it changed from Chartruse to orange.

Yes, you are correct, concerning the older "experts".

My comments were specifically written, concerning C.C.S., because the call was made to C.C.S. by a VCCA member, for engine color verification .... and the info was incorrect from C.C.S. If anyone should be correct, it should be Chevrolet.

As noted in my initial comment, I knew the thread was old, but found the need to add my .02 cents to an old thread.