VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc Valve adjustment '34 Master

Now that it runs I guess I can go ahead and adjust the valves. That might get rid of the "spit" in the exhaust. I know that is done on a warm engine. Is is done with the engine running or stopped? Neither the shop manual or the Motor manual is very clear. Any tips, techniques etc?

I much prefer to do the valve adjustment under running conditions after it is well warmed up.

As long as the valve being adjusted is closed, it can be done either way. If at ambient temperature use the cold feeler gauge settings and visa-versa for hot.

Running with heat stabilized at max for the thermostat installed is the preferred method by many and may be a bit more accurate. If you have a low degree thermostat, you may want to put a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator to bring the temperature up to about 180 degrees or so.

Just my opinion. Good luck with it,
Charlie

How is it done with the engine runnin? Loosen the arm until the gsauge goes in then retighten? That's what I'd like to know.

You need a good feel to adjust when running. If you have little experience at it,you would do better with a warm engine shut down. Just start with the timing mark on #1. Turn the motor over by hand and follow the firing order. You should see the intake close on each one. 1-5-3-6-2-4.

I remember many years ago that you had to adjust the tappets on a Vauxhall Viva running, (small English GM car) This was done using a long strip of feeler gauge material the right size of course, because the tappets gave the feeler gauge a real hammering.
You would then cut of the end bit and carry on to the next tappet.
This was in the late 1960's in the UK.
I have always adjusted cold or a little on the warm side and not erred on the side of being pedantic about it all...
and my feeler gauges last for ever

Peter

That sounds good. That's more or less how I did it initially when i assembled it.

An easy way to get TDC, when adjusting #1 turn engine by hand and watch #6 when the ex is nearly closed and in just opening (changing over) adjust both #1 valves, then watch #2 and when they are changing adjust #5, #3 changing adjust #4, #1 changing adjust #6, #5 adjust #2, #3 adjust #4.
To make sure you have adjusted all valves you can place a marker as you adjust each valve.
Tony

Tony,

Great reply to Pat, mate. Trumps all I have ever seen. Simple and easy to follow.

If there was an award for the simplest and most straightforward answer and solution for a problem, I would vote for your instant response for the best for 2012. Would too!

Best,
Charlie

Another thing I do is loosen the lock nuts and then snug them back down. Then once you have finished adjusting your valves go back and make sure they are tight.

We did the adjustments today with the help of an old time mechanic friend. He also refined my ignition adjustments. It now runs absolutely still at a steady 170 degrees. But it leaks, does it ever leak!

Erlier someone had suggested the oil gallery plug. I opened the flywheel cover and the oil appears to come from behind this pan.



Someone else had suggested the oil slinger. It is supposed to be integral to the crankshaft. The first photo below shows one of my old ones. The black thing close to the flywheel flange must be the slinger. The second photo shows the crankshaft I installed. It looks like it doesn't have one.





That could well be the problem. I really don't like the sound of this. I suppose we could check that by remoVing the oil pan and the rear bearing cap. If we get that far and there is in fact no slinger, is there some thing I could put in there to control that oil?

Yes install a crankshaft with a slinger on it.

I don't know of a seal that can be installed.

The oil that flows out of the back of the rear main bearing needs to be slung into the depression that drains back into the oil pan. Otherwise some of it just runs out the back of the engine.

Can I confirm the slinger thing by pulling the rear main cap? Maybe I should do that before taking off half cocked looking for another NOS crankshaft or getting an old one rebuilt. If the slinger is there, then we're back to the gallery plug....But photos seldom lie.

Yupster, Pull that cap and have a gander. If no slinger it means a lot more work.

I'll say...

Checkout the photo I posted. Going through a learning curve on how to post pics in the forum. I'll get it right one of these days!

That is the way I was taught as an apprentice. The variation is when the firing order is different but easy way is to look at firing order start at adjust #1 and have the cylinder half way around the distributor cap rocking then to next pair, this works with even number of cylinders. I have never tried the engines with odd number of cylinders (VW and Audi) to know of an easy way for them.
Tony

thanks Master. Have a look at mine above. It certainly looks like the second one doesn't have one. What do you think?

Don't mean to take discussion off topic-but the crankshaft in your post could have a slinger-hard to tell from the angle in which the pic was taken.

I'll do this first as it is the worst case scenario.

If there is a slinger, then I'll pull the transmission, clutch flywheel & bell housing. Any pointers on this will be welcome. The body is on the car.

The slinger has to be there because it is part of the crankshaft forging, not added part. There will be a big grove running around the main bearing cap and block and the slinger is spaced into this grove.
The slinger can be seen on page 14 of the 1934 shop manual, fig. #22. It is a raised flange at the rear of the main bearing journal about 1/8" wide and sticks out about 1/4" or less. Not to be confused with the large flange that the flywheel is bolted to.
There is a cut out on each side of the rear main beaing shim that matches the cut out for the slinger that is in the block and main bearing cap.

Hi Gene,

I realize that it should be there however unless my picture isn't clear enough, I can't see it. I certainly hope that crankshaft had one on it. We'll know for sure tomorrow.

It would be a shame to take it apart as it runs so well. It's almost as if he balanced the engine.

Sure looks like the shop that ground your crank ground off the slinger. If so the crank is junk unless a real capable machinist can turn one, split it in half and weld it in the proper position on the shaft. Don't laugh guys it can be done. Good cranks for that motor are out there and thats likely the way to go. Bummer!
DFC

Pat, If you do need a crankshaft check out Ebay item # 250789331221. It has a good picture of what you should see. It is being sold by our own Bruce Bugay, Chevy B.
Richard

DFC, nobody ground it, it is NOS. Like Gene says, it HAS to have a slinger. But that picture....

Well, last night I took all those pictures to the cruise night and had the guys look at them. Everyone was sure they could see the slinger. one suggested I use the zoom feature of the computer to have a closer look. Why didn't I think of that?
It is definitely visible.

Today I'll see about getting a borescope to look up behind the flywheel in the area of the oil gallery plug. Then I'll likely come here again for pointers and tips on how to remove the transmission while the body is on the car. I seem to remember someone saying you have to back off the rear end.

At least I had my gauges come in to boost the morale. See photos in Member's projects.

To remove the transmission (and bell housing) it is necessary to only open up the U joint ball and unbolt the U joint.

Chev Nut Is absolutely correct, unless you have a riveted U joint rather than the bolted model, then you must push back the rear end. I have seen It happen, ask Wino Wally.
Richard

The Standard came with a riveted U joint, the Masters were bolted.

Chev Nut is correct. My driveline, however, came with a 4 speed 1-1/2 ton truck transmission and special u-joint, which we were unable to separate easily. We decided to pull the rear end back instead. We then installed a new, bolted Master u-joint to complement the newly rebuilt 3-speed transmission we were installing. Any future transmission / driveline work on my truck can now be done by splitting the new u-joint.

Thanks for keeping us on our toes, Gene.

Gene, would I need to support the rear of the engine since the right mount bracket is attached to the bell housing? Or are the front ones combined with the left side strong enough?

I would support the engine to avoid damaging the rear mounts.

Yes. the Book says suport the rear of the engine. I blocked it up. I removed the floor board and got some air from a fan I had blowing under the truck. Also gave some extra room to work.

I got as far as separating the u-joint. That wasn't easy because the last bolt was turning. Aren't those bolts supposed to be pressed in there?

Next problem, the yoke won't retract all the way to the torque tube. I doubt the transmission would ever come out like that, it has some 5" of front shaft to clear. I think I know why. It's because I followed someone's example and put the new driveshaft bushing in front of the old one.



So, it looks like I may have to back off the differential after all. Isn't this fun?

Won't the torque tube drop straight down? From the photo It looks like It would, allowing your transmission to be pulled straight back.
Richard

The torque tube will drop to the riveted pan on the chassis. It takes some finagalling(is that a word?) to get the trans out. Also a few cuss words.

I've got it jacked right up in the photo. If I let it drop to the riveted pan Master Six mentions above, there wouldn't be enough clearance.

That's what I was saying,Pat. Be sure the torque tube ball is all the way back (loosen the seal collar and be sure the torque tube is clean). You then may have to lift the torque tube as high as you can and tie it off. This is the procedure on page 37 of the shop manual. Using two homemade guide pins helps out also.